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Marihuana Conference

in the UNITED STATES Bureau of Internal Revenue Building (Room 3003)
Washington D. C.



Conferees Present:	2 - 3 

containing Review of Proceedings 
of Sub-Committee on Cannabis of 
Advisory Committee on Traffic in 
Opium, League of Nations:	4-16 

OF WISCONSIN, relating to growth
of Hemp, where seeds are produced, 
and Hemp is grown in United States:	16 - 27 

NEW YORK, as to growth of Marihuana 
in that state.	27 - 29

to experiments as to World Production 
of Hemp, and quantity of Production in 
United States and Growth and Production 
of Cannabis, and Comparative Results 
obtained from Seed obtained from various 
Countries:	29 - 49 

as to Tests made from Seeds of Hemp in 
various Countries:	42- 43

CONSULTING CHEMIST, as to his Experience 
in Growth of Cannabis:	49 - 55

INDEX -(Continued)

Effects of Marihuana on Organs 
of Body:	55- 60 

as to Bio-Assay of Marihuana	60 - 65 

relating to varying Effects of 
Marihuana in various Classes of 
Individuals:	65 - 88 

Discussion on Pharmacological Phases 
of Marihuana Problem:	89 -133 

DEPARTMENT:	133 -137 

Survey of Chemical Constituents of 
Cannabis Sativa:	137-143 

Report of Department of Attacks on 
Marihuana Problems:	143 -151 

Tests for Identification of Marihuana	152 -160

as to Tests:	160-164


..... INDEX -(Continued)

as to Tests:	162-164 

in relation to Tests:	165 -l70


General Discussion:	173-178


BY COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I want to express to you the 
appreciation of the Treasury Department for giving your valuable time in 
an effort to assist the Government in this important work.

I will now introduce the conferees in attendance:

DR. JOHN R. MATCHETT, Chief Chemist, Bureau of Narcotics 

DR. JOSEPH LEVINE, Chemist, Bureau of Narcotics 

LOUIS BENJAMIN, Chemist, Treasury Department

DR. B. B. ROBINSON, Bureau of Plant Industry,
Department of Agriculture

DR. HERBERT O. CALVERY, Chief, Division of Pharmacology, 
Food & Drug Administrs.tion, Department of Agriculture

DR. ROBERT P. HERWICK, Food & Drug Administration, 
Department of Agriculture

DR. LAWRENCE KOLB, Division of Mental Hygiene, 
Public Health Service

DR. JAMES COUCH, Pathological Division, 
Bureau of Anlmal Industry, 
Department of Agriculture

DR. A.H. BLATT, Professor of Chemistry, Howard

DR. S. LOEWE, Pharmacologist, Cornell University
Medical College

DR. A.H. WRIGHT, Professor of Agronomy, University 
of Wisconsin

DR. WALTER BROMBERG, Senior Psychiatrist, Department of 
Hospitals, City of New York


DR. JAMES C. MUNCH, Professor of Pharmacology, Temple University

MR. H. M. LANCASTER, Chief Dominion Analyst, Canadian Government, 
Ottawa, Canada

MR. HENRY FULLER, Consulting Chemist, Washington, D. C.

MR. FRANK SMITH, Chief of Drug Control, State of New York.

DR. JAMES HIBBEN, Geophysical Laboratory Carnegie Institute of 

MR. FRED T. MERRILL, Foreign Policy Association Washington, D. C.

MR. PETER VALAER, Chemist, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U. S. 
Treasury Department, Washington, D. C.

DR. W. V. LINDER, Chief, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U. S. Treasury 
Department, Washington, D. C.

MR. PAUL W. SIMONDS, Assn. Chief, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U. S. 
Treasury Department, Washington, D. C.

MR. MORRIS KAPLAN, Office of the Chief, Division of Laboratories, U. 
S. Bureau of Customs

DR. S. T. SCHICKTANZ, Chemist, Alcohol Tax Unit Laboratory, U. S. 
Treasury Department

Commissioner Anslinger:
I assume the press will be after us. The Treasury Department has not 
as yet publicly announced this meeting. The Department will do this 
subsequently. I hope therefore, that none of you will be drawn into 
discussions with reporters until the meeting is concluded. The Treasury 
Department will issue a statement on the meeting.
I want all of you to freely express your opinions on every phase of 
the subject under discussion; and if you differ on any point, we hope you 
will not hesitate to present your side of the picture.
I want to give you a brief review of what took place at Geneva, 
Switzerland, last spring at a meeting of the Sub-Committee on Cannabis, of 
the Advisory Committee on traffic in opium and other dangerous drugs of 
the League of Nations. I think this a fitting way to open the Conference. It 
will illustrate the international significance of the Cannabis problem and 
show the current status of some of the excellent work that is being done 
by other nations on the question.
This work I think was very important, and I want to give you the 
reports of the experts of the various countries which will give you an idea 
as to the points on which the authorities still remain in doubt.


The Secretariat of the League referred to various points submitted 
to the Experts in a questionnaire drawn up for their use in January, l936, 
and used as a basis for the Sub-Committees work. He described the 
research work being undertaken.
The Sub-Committee endeavored to indicate on what phases of the 
Marihuana problem agreement exists, and on what points there is a 
divergence of views which has formed the subject of exchange of 
information between the Experts whether on chemical and agricultural 
questions, or on the medical and pathological questions.
Since the Advisory Committee's last session, Mr. J. V. Collins, 
Government Analyst, Ceylon, on January 12, l938, notified the Committee 
of his acceptance of the Advisory Committee's invitation to act as an 
Expert on Cannabis in place of the late Dr. Symons.
The Committee received important documents from two of its 
Experts, Dr. Bouquet and Dr. de Myttenaere.
Dr. Bouquet has for many years done a vast amount of work on 
Cannabis. He is the Inspector of Pharmacies in Tunis.

Dr. Bouquet submitted reports on the following points:

I	Vegetable products wrongly designated as hemp.
II	Microscopic examination of samples of Cannabis.
III	Physiologically active resin in the staminate Cannabis 

IV	 New variety of Cannabis.
V	Influence of drought on the growth of Cannabis.
VI	Medical uses of Cannabis and drugs with a Cannabis base.
VII	Use of animal charcoal. 
VIII	Dr. James C. Munch's Reaction.
IX	Is light petroleum the only solvent of the active element 
of Cannabis and its preparations? 
X	Addiction by certain solanaceae.

Then the report is supplemented by Dr. Bouquet regarding the following 

I	Are the light petroleum extracts of Cannabis the only 
ones that are physiologically active?
II	Observations on document O.C.1542 (z) (Report on the 
research conducted by the Treasury Department of the United 
States of America, in cooperation with the Department of 
Agriculture, in connection with studies on the chemical 
identification of Cannabis Indica (Cannabis Sativa).
III	Identification test for Cannabis resin, proposed by Dr. de 
IV	Method of identifying resin, proposed by Dr. H. J. Wollner.
V	Procedure for experiments.
VI	Observations on the causes of Cannabis addiction in 
North Africa.
Dr. de Myttenaere submitted to the Secretariat a supplement to the 
third note on Indian hemp, and a fourth note on Indian hemp, including a 
study of the published work which has appeared since May, 1937, giving 
observations of Mr. Wollner's experiments in the United States.
Apart from these contributions from Experts of the Sub-Committee 
on Cannabis, the Secretariat received a “Study of the Chemical 
Identification of Marihuana (Cannabis Indica)" by Dr. Rafael Plasencia, 
Government Chemist of Cuba, and a reply concerning the same subject 
from the United Kingdon Representative. It also received information 
regarding experiments on the chemical identification of Cannabis indica 
communicated by the United States Government. This is the report 
covering the investigation conducted by the Treasury Department in 
cooperation with the Department's Agriculture.
The United Kingdom also submitted to the Secretariat a 
communication concerning the question as to whether Cannabis stalks 
used commercially for the production of fibre still contained resin. That 
point was also discussed.
As to the American documents, we usually summarize all work that 
has been done on Cannabis, incorporate it into one document and submit it 
to the League of Nations.
As to Dr. Plasencia's experiment; he has followed up Beam's 
experiments and elaborated a new method which he


states is absolutely and specifically suitable for Cannabis and constant 
for all the varieties tested, even Merck's extract of Cannabis indica with 
which Beam's reaction gave no result.
Our Government has submitted observations on this paper.
The United Kingdom Representative also transmitted an opinion by 
the Government Chemist who suggests certain modifications in this 
method. These modifications consist of an attempt to separate the 
substances responsible for the characteristic color in Beam's test on the 
assumption that it is a phenol.
All of these documents are available in the United States Treasury 
Department for anyone who would like to study them.
It would seem that Dr. de Myttenaere and Mr. Wollner have different 
opinions on the point as to whether light petroleum is the best solvent for 
Cannabis. Dr. de Myttenaere considers that so far as is known at present, 
light petroleum is the best solvent for the extraction of the active 
principles of Cannabis, and hence the only one suitable for Beam's test; 
and he has carried out experiments as to whether ethyl acetate should be 
substituted, or is preferable as a solvent for petroleum ether.


In the report there is also given the list of vegetable products 
wrongfully designated as hemp,
We have a little trouble with that in this country, as it is frequently 
designated as Cannabis, New Zealand hemp, hemp of the Americas, Bombay 
hemp, African hemp, etc.
It has been found that these were all wrong designators used by 
various persons interested in the problem.
NOTE.--Until very recently. the definition of Cannabis sativa 
(marihuana) was based upon the traditional conception that the active 
principle of the drug, technically known as cannabinol or cannabinone, is 
present only in the female or pistillate plant and present there only in the 
flowering tops. Since the development of more refined chemical tests, it 
has been discovered that the active principle is contained in the leaves of 
the pistillate plant as well as the leaves of the staminate plant. This 
brought about the advisability of makihg the definition all inclusive in 
laws for control of the drug found in the male as well as the female plant. 
It will therefore be necessary to change the definition in the League of 
Nations Treaty of 1925.
Dr. Bouquet, while investigating this question, found that it always 
has been acknowledged that intoxicating resin could be obtained from 
male Cannabis plants but in


such small quantities that for practical purposes this source of 
production is not utilized at present. He realized, however, that it might 
become worthwhile for traffickers to turn their attention to it, and 
recommended that the free handling of the vegetative parts of both male 
and female Cannabis plants should be prohibited.
That work was started in America by the laboratory of Parke-Davis 
some years ago.
Then the question of the production of the fibre, the condition of 
development, depending on the meterological factors of the crop area was 
discussed. In this respect differences have been noted between the height 
of the plant, and the length, consistency and toughness of the textile 
The growing conditions of the plant also affect the output of its 
resin, which depends directly on the degree of temperature; on the dryness 
of the soil; and probably on the amount of sunshine encountered.
In the annual report for Turkey for 1937, there is brought to the 
attention of the Committee data concerning a variety of Cannabis sativa 
having long stalks. It is grown for industrial purposes in various parts of 
Anatolia; the fibre is used for manufacturing ropes and sacks; and its 
resin content is so slight it could not be used for


the extraction of a narcotic drug.
That seems to be the answer to our prayers, if true. As to the 
psychical and psychopathic effects of Cannabis, the literature on this 
phase of the subject tends to confirm the analysis as to the psychic 
effects of hashish made as long ago as 1845 by Dr. Moreau de Tours in his 
book, which incidentally is still the standard work on the subject.
Also, Dr. Brottaux in his book on Hashish published in 1934, which I 
think is considered a veritable "bible" on the subject today, has followed 
up and in the main confirmed Dr. Moreau's analysis.
Then there was discussed the relation between Cannabis and 
insanity. There was reference to the work of Dhunsiboy, the Director of 
one of the Hospitals for Insane in India—in which he points out that the 
prolonged use of Indian hemp leads to insanity.
The work of Dr. Bouquet was discussed; and also the work of the 
British Indian hemp Commission which carried out an inquiry in 1893 and 
1894 into the relationship of Indian hemp and lunacy.
Colonel Chopra did some work in India which was discussed. He found that 
in India a special form of mental disease classed as toxic insanity had 
direct relation to the excessive use of hemp drugs.


All of these experts laid stress on "excessive use."
Then there was a proposal discussed to authorize the sale of ganja 
to the Indian population in Burma.
As you probably know, in India. the Government maintains a 
Monopoly, and various narcotic products are sold across the counter tax-
The League of Nations wanted to point out to the Committee the 
various points that were raised in connection with the proposal to sell 
To meet the allegation concerning the increase in insanity due to the 
use of ganja, a table prepared by the Inspector General of Civil Hospitals 
in Burma has been added showing that as far as the mental hospital at 
Tagadale was concerned, the percentage of mental cases attributable to 
the use of ganja and its derivatives varied during the years between 1928 
and 1937 from 0.87 to 4.35; and that in 1936, out of a total of 296 
admissions there were ten such cases, the corresponding figures for 1937 
being 356 and ten respectively.
The Sub-Committee was urged to examine the still-controversial 
question of the relationship between addiction to hemp drugs and the 
spread of insanity.
The work of Dr. Stringaris on Hashish was discussed. He is an 
authority on insanity due to the use of Hashish


in Russia. He maintains that a further increase can be expected in the 
ravages caused by Hashish in Asiatic Russia.
Then the question of the relationship between the abuse of narcotic 
drugs and alcoholism arose. It is still a mixed question, and considerable 
recommendations were furnished.
In Algeria, Dr. Bouquet has noted that Heroin addicts were recruited 
from the Hashish addicts, and Dr. Stringaris in Asiatic Russia has found 
that to be the case there also.
In conclusion the Secretariat pointed out that, as a result of 
concurrent investigations, progress has been made on chemical studies 
and research, while fresh information has been gathered in other spheres; 
at the same time, certain points still require clarification, especially in 
connection with the physiological, psychological, and psychopathic effects 
of Cannabis and with the relationships between Hashish-addiction and 
insanity, and between Cannabis-addiction and crime.
After considering all of the recommendations furnished by the 
League of Nations, the Sub-Committee then made the following report, 
which is very pertinent in the light of the points we want to discuss here.

"In discussion of the matter before it, the Sub-Committee divided 
consideration of the subject as follows:


(l)	Commercial uses of Cannabis 
(2)	Medical uses of Cannabis 
(3)	Effects of the abuse of Cannabis 
(4)	Methods of detecting the presence of Cannabis
(5)	Legal definition of the term "Cannabis.”

The discussions developed the fact that the Committee still lacks 
complete information concerning the commercial uses of Cannabis. The 
Sub-Committee would welcome further information concerning the 
physiological, psychological and psychopathic effects of abusive use of 
Cannabis and the relation between Cannabis-addiction and crime.
Dr. Bouquet pointed out that percentages of resin content in the 
hemp plant raised in different countries should be ascertained with a view 
to deciding whether it is necessary to prohibit or merely to control the 
cultivation of Cannabis for industrial purposes.
The value of the Beam test for detecting the presence of Cannabis 
appears to have been confirmed by a further series of experiments, the 
results of which are before the Committee, including those attained by the 
employment of several different modifications of that text.
Dr. de Myttenaere said that his experience enabled him to state that 
the Beam alkaline reaction and its modifications indicated the chief 
element in the various


components of Cannabis resin which was the cause of Hashish addiction, 
i.e.the alcoholic group.
Dr. Bouquet informed the Sub-Committee that a test based upon new 
principles had recently been devised which will form the subject of a 
thesis to be presented by Messrs. Duquenois and Hassan Negm Mustapha at 
the University of Strasbourg in July, 1938, a brief description of which 
will be circulated to the Opium Advisory Committee.
The question of modifying the incomplete definition of Indian hemp 
in the Geneva Convention of 1925 was discussed, but no definite 
conclusion was arrived at. It appeared upon examination that such 
modification would affect not only Article 1 of the Convention, but also 
Articles 4 and 11 and would necessarily involve complicated adjustments 
in the Convention itself. It was therefore decided to postpone further 
consideration of this matter until the next session of this Sub-Committee 
when it is hoped that more time will be available for the work.
Up to the present time, the work of the Sub-Committee has 
consisted almost entirely of collecting information in regard to the 
various phases of the Cannabis problem, and, until the Sub-Committee has 
before it more data than it has at present, it would scarcely be considered 
advisable to undertake definite recommendations."


We would like to take inventory of our research and see what is 
The Federal Government did not get into this picture until after all 
48 states had adopted legislation controlling Marihuana in greater or less 
degree. The Marihuana Tax Act went into effect a little over a year ago, 
and since that time we have destroyed some 16,000 acres of the plant 
throughout the various States; most of it in the Middle West. About l,000 
violators have been arrested by the Federal Government.
I am not trying to sell this book, but I want to call your attention to 
the work on "Marihuana'a written by Dr. Robert P. Walton, Professor of 
Chemistry, University of Mississippi, with a foreword by Dr. Geller who is 
a distinguished pharmacologist connected with the University of Chicago.
I would like to start with the agricultural phases of this problem, 
which will also include the industrial and economic phases.
I am therefore going to call on Dr. Wright of the University of 
Wisconsin and ask him to discuss some of the questions that seem to be 
troubling us.

Professor of Agronomy University of Wisconsin


DR. WRIGHT: Gentlemen, let me say to you in the first place that 
while I am connected with the University of Wisconsin, so far as the hemp 
work is concerned, the hemp being Marihuana, I am working as an agent and 
in cooperation with the Bureau of Plant Industry here in Washington.
I had better assume that you are about the agricultural side like I am 
about chemistry, that you do not know very much about it. Therefore, 
suppose I sketch briefly the practical every day procedure by which hemp 
is handled in the United States and Canada, not mentioning anything about 
the European situation, and as Dr. Robinson is going to review something 
about the history of hemp, I will leave that out entirely.
In the United States hemp is an annual crop produced from seed 
planted each year, planted in the Spring the same as small grains are 
planted, the same as corn is planted.
It has been grown during recent years almost exclusively in very few 
sections; Kentucky, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota.
It is planted en masse thickly as small grain, in other words, it is 
drilled in.
It is planted on very good soil in order to be a profitable production. 
It is a crop limited to good soil


for profitable production most every where in the world, and it is seeded 
about a bushel to the acre on soil, prepared as for small grain.
After it is planted, there is nothing left to be done except to wait 
for it to be harvested, and it is harvested in the latter part of August, 
throughout September, and sometimes extending into October depending on 
the section of the United States or Canada.
The seed is usually produced in Kentucky, and in the North American 
Continent, very rarely any other place. In the sections where it is grown 
for fibre or industrial uses, seed is not produced.
The usual, or arbitrary way of determining when to harvest a crop is 
when it is well in blossom, we will say rather late blossom when the 
pollen is being fairly cleared, depending from that time on how 
circumstances work out, but that is when it is begun.
It is generally harvested now by special machinery which has been 
developed during the last few years. It is cut and spread in swaths of even 
length. It is left in the stuble, spread out for retting.
Now, the exact procedure varies in different sections of the country. 
This retting period, that is the period when the so-called fibre portion of 
the stem is released


from the woody portion, varies from two weeks to, in certain cases, two 
After it has reached that stage where the fibre can be removed from 
the straw by being dressed, it is gathered and bound in bundles and 
shocked. Then it is put in stacks, usually in hemp mills or processing 
From these stacks it is sent to the dryer, and dried to what is 
commonly called in the trade bone-dry condition and which would mean 8 
or 9 or 10% moisture.
Then it is crushed by the breaking process, that is the fiber is 
separated by the usual process called scutching, and it is divided into two 
kinds of fibre, one the long stretch, and the other tangled, and then it is 
inserted in bales.
That, I believe, is the agricultural procedure of the handling of the 
There is a little variation in Kentucky because of the weather 
conditions. It is not retted immediately, but shocked until later in the 
season when the retting conditioning can be done.
In the northern part of the country, it is spread on the ground and the 
retting is done immediately.
Now, I want to avoid going into the acreage and that phase of the 
work for Dr. Robinson is going to cover that.


I would like to inject this thought here for I am sure it will do no 
harm, and that is that hemp has been an American industry ever since 
Colonial times It is not a large industry. It has had its ups and downs, but 
it has been an American industry since Colonial times, and it is one of the 
oldest crops that we have in the United States.
It is used, as you know, from an industrial stand-point for textile 
purposes, and to a minor extent for other purposes and Dr. Robinson will 
develop that.
Now, there might be perhaps some questions right now. One or two 
other items I want to take up before I am through.


DR. WRIGHT: You know I might not have another chance to say 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: You will be given a chance. Go right 
ahead, Dr. Wright.

DR. WRIGHT: I was just wanted to throw this into the pot, and that 
is, of course, that we who work with the commercial producers, and the 
industry naturally collectively, and I suppose we are justifiable in that, 
our prejudices are on that side. I do not think we would be human if we 
were not, and I do not claim to be other than human. We have a small 
industry in the United States that


has had its ups and downs over a long period of time. We still produce 
commercial hemp and fibre. Those in the industry are naturally concerned. 
They have a stake in that they have what little they have invested in the 
They are not concerned about this last law because I believe they 
were given a very square deal in the national legislation on the matter. 
What they are concerned about is the public position, that indefinite 
intangible thing, public feeling about growing hemp at all. 
They have already been subjected to some rather embarrassing 
Now, just suppose that as a result of the agitation, warranted or 
not, and there are probably two views on that, and I am open to both 
views, the extensive publicity that has been given in the hemp states, 
particularly Wisconsin where there is much agitation, that some kind of a 
legislation will come up to put out or eradicate the production of hemp 
under the Weed Control Department or the Legislature appropriating money 
to do it. 
I will not bother you long on that, but I just want to mention that 
and show what problem we will be called on to face. Those men have 
managed to keep their mouths

shut and have expressed no views concerning Marihuana in public, for we 
feel we are not in a position to do so, and we would like to be sure of our 
ground before doing it.
Of course, having worked with eradication procedures and 
eradication programs, unless you would convince us otherwise we would 
oppose the eradication program in Wisconsin as we see it now with the 
immense cost and the things of that sort.
Now comes the other phase of it. We have been trying, in cooperation 
with the Bureau of Plant Industry, and Dr. Robinson and the Division of 
Pharmacy of the University of Wisconsin and Dr. Link who is head of the 
Bio-Chemistry Department of the University of Wisconsin to begin a study 
of Cannabis in relation to hemp as a crop. 
Without going into details, I think I have told you my story for the 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We thank you very much, Doctor. Before 
we go on to Dr. Robinson, I think there were various points brought up that 
our conferees would like to discuss.
There is one point about commercial hemp. We did not make a survey 
in your State, but we did make a survey in the State of Minnesota, and 
some of the hemp that was harvested in 1934 is still on the ground.


DR. WRIGHT: That is right.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: It is giving us a great deal of difficulty. 
The farmers up in Minnesota in some of the sections have been subjected 
to various promotion schemes. Due to the existence of stacks of the old 
1934 and 1935 crop of harvested hemp in Southern Minnesota, which is a 
menace to society in that it has been used by traffickers, we have 
arrested a gang who took a truck load of this Marihuana into New York.
I will say that the farmers up there have been cooperating with us 
100%. If they see anybody around that section who looks like a trafficker, 
they bring out their old shot guns, and he is soon disposed of. We have very 
little trouble from the farmers up there.
It is said that every stack contains a plentiful supply for smoking 
Allegations have been made that if it was on the ground three years 
there would not be any resin left. Mr. Wollner can tell you how much resin 
some of the experts reported after Marihuana had been lying on the ground 
three years. It seems that the traffickers can find it. Our own chemists 
have found it.
We feel that the farmer is entitled to a reasonable return for these 
old crops. He planted the crop in goodfaith; he has no desire to violate the 
law, and we have


been assured that the removal of the harvested crops is very desirable. It 
is a very difficult situation.
Have you any observations to make, or any discussion on the 

DR. ROBINSON: As to thw commercial procedure, tha plant is spread 
out on the land, and left there until the stalks are retted, and some of the 
leaves are gone. It is shocked and taken into the hemp mill. The grower is 
uncertain as to where he stands, and whether the leaves that are 
associated with the straw are in the legal sense Marihuana, referring, of 
course, to that particular clause in the law which refers to dry stalks.
Now this is done as follows: the straw is left on the land in the 
stubble for varying times, as I say, from two weeks or longer during this 
retting process. It is subject to the action of rains and bleaching and 
decomposition with the various effects of bacteria and fungi, but when it 
is taken in, it still retains a trace of the leaves. That is what affects the 
folks up there in Minnesota.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I notice the term "hurds" referred to.

DR. WRIGHT: That is the non-fibrous material crushed and taken away 
from the fibrous. It is the residue. It


would be the same as shives in flax.

MR. WOLLNER: I am afraid to say that the experiment with Minnesota 
hemp is rather inconclusive. As I understand it the hemp was bundled 
before it had been permitted to ret for an extended period of time.
It may be we will find that if the hemp is permitted to ret before it 
is stacked, a further decomposition of the drug will ensue. However, we do 
know that the Minnesota hemp of 1934 is active.

DR. WRIGHT: It would be active.

MR. WOLLNER. It is active but whether the activity was retained by 
improper handling of the hemp, I don't know. As I understand it they were 
advised to bunch their hemp before it was retted.

DR. WRIGHT: It was never rotted or retted. The plan of handling in 
Minnesota was unauthorized. In other words, it was contrary to the usual 
procedure. They put the green hemp or the semi-green hemp in a bundle, 
and at a later stage it would be known in the trade as green hemp. That 
was never used for textile purposes. It was not suitable for textile 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Then, Dr. Wright, your opinion is that if 
harvested properly most of the leaves avould remain on the ground and not 
adhere to the stalks?


DR. WRIGHT: I will be perfectly frank in telling you that will vary in 
seasonal conditions, and so we are much concerned about that. There are 
leaves left. As to the condition of those leaves, we don't know. They are 
left, and there is no use in denying that. There are considerable left on the 
straw. There are not a great deal, but there are leaves left.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Then prompt harvesting would reduce this 
danger we are now confronted with? 

DR. WRIGHT: It would.

DR. MATCHETT: What about the hemp stacked green in Kentucky; 
doesn't that mold more than that left on the ground?

DR. WRIGHT: Hemp is left in the shock in Kentucky. You will correct 
me Dr. Robinson, if I'm wrong, because it has been fifteen years since I 
was down there, but it is my impression that it is shocked. It is first 
spread and allowed to wilt on the ground.

DR. MATCHETT: Then there is no molding?

DR. WRIGHT: If properly handled there will be no molding. 

MR. WOLLNER: From our point of view that would be improper 
handling; there would be no decomposition of the resin.


DR. WRIGHT: The general weathering we would get would be during 
the curing stage.

MR. WOLLNER: How long, about, does that take?

DR. WRIGHT: Now, after it is shocked, cured and stacked, later it is 
spread on the land again and retted.

DR. MATCHETT: But, during this period, of course, it would be in 
excellent condition for smoking, - that is, relatively dry in the stack.

DR. WRIGHT: From the time it is cut until it is rotted, whatever 
leaves there are should be suitable for Marihuana.

MR. SMITH: While we have not found in New York State a large 
agricultural growth, we do find that the largest part of our growth, 
instead of being on good soil, is on poor soil.
For the past two years when I have been looking for wild growth, I 
have found it in dumps or soil that has a high content of ashes or cinders, 
and I have found it trying to grow it in my own garden but the growth does 
not begin to compare with that of the cinder growth, and as a matter of 
fact we have found that most recently the wild growth seeks that kind of 
That does not prove anything, of course, except we have probably 
most of our wild growth coming from ashes


and cinders and public dumps. This did strike me very forcibly, and what 
struck me more forcibly was that we had some of the biggest growths in 
Brooklyn where it was almost a clear cinder dump.
Our experience in New York State so far has not produced anyone who 
desired to be licensed as a cultivator.
I think some of that might be offset if the public was assured that 
the cultivator would have to be licensed, after proper investigation, and 
that definite qualifications exist to establish control.

DR. WRIGHT: As to your first statement about hemp growing on 
cinder beds, wild hemp, - it is not a fibrous hemp. As all of you who are 
familMWith the middle west know, you will find blocks that were 
formerly even cinder beds, but fibrous hemp will not grow there.

MR. SMITH: The point I was chiefly interested in was the public 
interest, where it was grown, whether being produced by chance or design.

DR. WRIGHT: We are hopeful we can clarify this situation. Since 
legislation may be introduced to eradicate or to bring pressure upon the 
legitimate producer, I appreciate your suggestion. I think it is a good one.

MR. SMITH: We have also in New York State given some consideration 
to definite measures for removal, but so far we have operated under 
difficulties acting under nuisance laws. Under the Public Health laws in 
New York, we can fix a penalty for maintaining a public nuisance. We have 
in a few instances removed Marihuana from private property where the 
owner wouldn't undertake it himself, and then assessed a lien against the 
property within the Public Health law on the ground that we have removed 
a public nuisance.

DR. WRIGHT: It might be construed to apply to Marihuana under our 
Public Health regulations in Wisconsin. I do not know whether it has been 
discussed or not.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Dr. Robinson, we would like to hear from 


DR. ROBINSON: If fibres produced from plants were ranked in 
accordance with their world production in tonnage, hemp would occupy a 
position of probably third or fourth. It would be surpassed by cotton and 
jute produced in India, and in some years by flax. That gives you some idea 
of where it stands in relative importance.
Dr. Wright mentioned a mattor that many of you are familMWith, the 
fact of the importance that hemp played in our earlier Colonial days 
before the introduction of


the cotton gin.
The culture of hemp in the United States, I might ay has decreased 
because of the cheap competitive fibres which are produced by cheap labor 
in foreign countries, and it is because of this cheapness that they are 
substituted for hemp in many cases, and not because of the fact that they 
have characteristics that are better than hemp for cordage or textile 
The average world production between the years 1930 and 1954 for 
hemp was about 750,000 tons. And now, during that same period in the 
United States in this small industry we have produced about 500 tons. The 
world production was produced mainly by Russia where I think 56% of the 
fibre is produced, followed by Italy, Yugoslavia, Rumania as other 
producing countries, During the past year or two we imported for domestic 
consumption about 700 to 800 tons a year, so our total consumption, 
including domestically produced fibre, and imported fibre runs about from 
1500 to 2000 tons.
Now, many of you here may wonder why such a small industry as that 
should be favored to continue on, particularly in the light of the 
detrimental character of certain parts of the plant used illegally.
In the first place the United States is dependent


upon the foreign production of fibres other than cotton. The United States 
imports annually about 300,000 tons of fibre used for cordage and textile 
purposes. The estimated value last year was about $35,000,000. That does 
not include some importations of India twine.
I do not mean to infer that if hemp were grown in this country, it 
could substitute for all of this 300,000 tons imported, but it is the 
principal fibre which we can get in the United atates, which could be 
substituted in many cases if conditions arose to make it necessary.
The United States, is very thoroughly taken care of at present in 
reference to supplying our own needs on this cordage fibre.
Another argument for the hemp industry is the adaptability of the 
hemp plant to various regions of the country and because of suitability for 
mechanical handling, and these are some of the reasons why the office 
with which I am connected in the Department of Agriculture is interested 
in seeing this small nucleus of hemp industry continued each year until it 
is capable of supporting itself under economic conditions. I am speaking 
more of the industry in Wisconsin rather than the promotional attempts to 
grow hemp in Minnesota which one might speak of an unorthodox 
processing. But this industry we have is capable at the


present time of supporting itself if public opinion does not force it to be 
shut doan, or additional restrictions hamper it.
So, this industry could be benefited we naturally think, if this 
Marihuana stigma could be removed. However, the Wisconsin operators are 
not opposed to adjust themselves to the conditions and are very much 
interested in trying to overcome this drug problem.
A couple of years ago when this problem was brought to the front 
more vividly than in the past, the Department of Agriculture was naturally 
interested in it, and the main way we could see to combat it was as to 
how to get around it [sic]. Naturally there might be less restriction on the 
production of hemp in this country if we could prove that in certain 
sections of the country, because of climatic conditions, the drug was not 
active, or if we could possibly get plants of varieties that lack the drug, 
which is probably an Utopian view, or that had it in low concentration.
As a result we cooperated with the Bureau of Narcotics, in setting 
up some experiments. The Bureau of Narcotics has conducted all of the 
chemical work, and Dr. Marchett later on will speak of these tests. I do not 
want to go too much into his field. But, we have attempted under


this cooperative work to remove or reduce the resinous substance from 
commercial hemp.
You gentlemen who are chemists and pharmacologists can assist the 
Agricultural program by furnishing the Agriculture Department some 
working tools or some tests by which we can tell the presence or absence 
of this drug, or its activity. It may be said that I am throwing it all on the 
chemists. I am not trying to do that, but we do need something to work 
So far we naturally have resorted to the Beam tests, the 
significance of which we do not know with certainty, but in the work we 
undertook last year, it was the only simple tool which we could work 
Now last summer out at Arlington farm close by, we planted a field 
in which there were 98 small plots of hemp that were set up in 
conformity with the statistical method of analysis of variances by a man 
named Fisher.
We obtained statistically significant differences between the 
varieties using the alkaline but did not obtain it using the acid test. The 
question may arise, then, as to which is the most accurate of the tests in 
measuring the presence or absence of the drug.
In reference to that, the question of the region of the hemp may play 
some importance. The native home of


hemp is supposedly in central Asia, —and the hemp of Chinese origin which 
has been distributed throughout the world has practically always been 
used for fibre purposes.
The hemp that has come from India has been of the narcotic type and 
has not been cultivated generally for fibre. It has been cultivated for the 
drug. I wish I knew the history of this a little better, but from what I have 
been able to learn from others, hemp does not appear to constitute a 
narcotic problem in China. That is of a fibrous variety, and there is a great 
difference between that hemp and the hemp that came from India. 
With reference to our test at Arlington, the narcotic chemists 
selected samples at three different periods for the acid and alkaline test. 
We got a difference, mathematically significant between those tests. That 
is, the first sampling which I think was in the early part of June, was 
different from the later two samplings in that it was lower in that 
characteristic of activity, the numbers they gave on the Beam test.
Actually, the last test was a little lower than the middle test, but it 
was not significantly lower.
We arranged 8 different fertilizer treatments for the various plots 
and found that the fertilizer used had no effect on the strength or 
incidence either the


acid or alkaline test.
Because of the fertilizer result it would appear that soil vs. variations 
that occurred probably did not produce any differences or that the soil does 
not play a part.
With reference to climate, so far we have not made a test for we have 
only had the work at Arlington.  But we plan next summer, if things go well at 
Arlington, to conduct a test in Wisconsin. We have some cooperative agents in 
Mississippi and we thought we could get a test farm there. It has been 
suggested that we try to get one other region, Arizona or New Mexico, or out 
in that section.  So far, we have not made arrangements, but, if we could get 
these various locations in the United States, then we could have a set-up 
whereby we could evolute [sic] climatic conditions in reference to certain 
tests, the Beam test or some other one if you can furnish it. These are the 
results which we have obtained so far in the agricultural program to get away 
from this drug.
There have been several reasons I have not brought out as to why we 
thought we could get somewhere.  We know by handling the plants that some 
of them are very resinous, and some are not.
So, we are receptive to the work you men will do to give us some means 
of testing our plants so as to allow


us to produce agriculturally some results which we hope will help the 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Thank you very muck, Dr. Robinson. You 
recall what I said about the Turkish annual report for the year 1937 in 
which it is said that Cannabis sativa with long stalks is grown for 
industrial purposes in various parts of Anatolia; that the fibre is used for 
the manufacture of ropes and sacks, and its resin content is so slight that 
it could not be used for the extraction of a narcotic drug. It might be 
interesting to get some Turkish seed. 

MR. WOLLNER: We have not had a great deal of success as regards 
those statements. We obtained some seed submitted by Dr. Bouquet and I 
believe Dr. Robinson planted some of them, without any success.

DR. ROBINSON: We planted them under favorable conditions last 
spring. Roughly we may have gotten in the field 200 or 300 plants, and 
after our first Beam test it was estimated we had about 100 left. About 
the first of August, I came back from a trip to the west, and we el-
iminated about two-thirds of the remainder leaving only about 40. I have 
harvested about 20 of these one-half were males, and we sent 10 from 
that collection over to Dr. Matchett to run an alkaline Beam test on. I was


able to obtain out of that .about one-third negative and the rest positive.

MR. WOLLNER: Was the amount of resin in these plants comparable to 
that in other plants?

DR. ROBINSON: In harvesting these plants, we merely stripped the 
seed in the field to keep the birds from getting it and I would say that the 
African plant was more resinous than the Manchurian plant. It may be that 
the African plant was later in maturing, but still, by comparison with the 
Manchurian plant, it had more resin. My hand was simply caked with resin 
in stripping the plant for the seed.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: The Indian Government report for 1934 
shows that where they did not have this type of hemp all of the resin was 
imported from Central Asia.
It is stated that the hemp cultivated in Europe does not carry the 
intoxicating properties of Indian hemp. While it is believed that the 
European hemp does not contain as much resin as is to be found in hemp 
usually produced in Asia, the production of the active resin is particularly 
variable, and there are some times great differences in quantity depending 
on the altitude of the place of cultivation.
Are there any questions that you care to ask, Dr.



DR. HIBBEN: I would like to ask if you made any experiments 
artificially in the new varieties by radiation?

DR. ROBINSON: We had a program for a number of years on hemp, and 
my predecessor, Mr. Dewey, who unfortunately could not be here this 
morning, reached retirement age three years ago, and our hemp program 
was interrupted.
So far we have not gone into that, but to some extent we have 
considered it. These other methods we have approached seemed to have 
possibilities of results if the tests mean anything.
I think this next spring, we should be able to plant these negative 
seeds we have, and those which have tested negative three different times 
and have been pollinated by plants in three different tests, and we should 
be able to give the chemists something definite to test.

DR. MUNCH: It is my recollection, when Mr. Dewey made a test of the 
original plants growing in Arlington back in 1922, we found different 
physiological portents in the male and the female but, at that time, Mr. 
Dewey had seed he had obtained from various parts of the world, and it is 
my impression that after about three years of cultivation at Arlington, the 
growth characteristics of all of these plants tended to the same type. In 


words, they all tended to hemp of a certain height, —as I say that occurred 
after three years of cultivation.

DR. ROBINSON: I think that more or less that result is obtained. 
Professor Wright who may have had a little closer touch with the problem 
could answer you better. Wouldn't that be your opinion, Professor Wright?

DR. WRIGHT: Yes, under the method used of applying open pollinating, 
that was the tendency as far as our observation went,—that they were 
more or less alike.

DR. ROBINSON: In reference to that, these stalks of hemp we obtained 
last year from these various sources, have all been isolated, so they have 
not been cross pollinated.

DR. MUNCH I do not know where Mr. Young of Florence, South Carolina, 
got his idea for the raising of Cannabis for a medicinal purpose -

DR. ROBINSON: He got it from Mr. Dewey.

DR. MUNCH: There was a material decrease in the material before he 
finally abandoned that project.

DR. ROBINSON: I do not know how he obtained it all, or that he 
obtained it all from Mr. Dewey, but as I recall, he did.

DR. MUNCH: There is one other question, and that is as to the method 
by which the seeds themselves were ob-


tained,-is that of any interest to you?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Yes, Dr. Wright, can you give us something 
on the that?

DR. WRIGHT: Commercial seed used for commercial planting?


DR. WRIGHT: I do not have any notes on that. The seed are grown from 
plants cultivated principally for seed; I mean the ordinary hemp which has 
been planted for seed similar to corn. It is planted in rows, all harvested 
by hand, and put in large shocks like those in Kentucky. It is harvested in 
the latter part of September or the first of October in the section in 
which it is grown. Then the shocks are dumped over on large canvasses, 
smoothed out on the ground, and the stubble removed and beat out with 
sticks in the old fashioned method. This is the only place in the United 
States producing this commercially.

DR. MATCHETT: Isn't most of the seed planted here produced in 
foreign countries?

DR. WRIGHT: I do not get the question.

DR. MATCHETT: Aren't most of the seeds produced in foreign 

DR. WRIGHT: Most of the seed produced for Commercial purposes 
originated in China, central China or towards


the south part of China and was carried here for cultivation.

MR. WOLLNER: I believe what Dr. Matchett means is the commercial 
crop that is grown for instance in Wisconsin, does that originate from 
seed grown in Kentucky, or the Far East?

DR. WRIGHT: All of the hemp planted in the United States for 
commercial purposes comes from Kentucky. That is, all of the legitimate 
hemp comes from seed grown in Kentucky. Does that answer the question? 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Dr. Matchett, you have been collaborating 
with Dr. Robinson in these experiments at Arlington. Can you tell us what 
results you obtained? Dr. Robinson has told us quite a lot about the 
results, but I think you can probably elaborate upon them.

DR. MATCHETT: First of all I might state we made these tests in the 
manner that was published by us last year, and in the treatment we 
divided the tests into six categories, according to the depth of color that 
we obtained, beginning with zero for negative plants. These plants which, 
gave us only traces of color, which we felt should not be overlooked, but 
which we also felt would not constitute wholly satisfactory 
identification of the


plant, were designated number one.

Those plants characterized as 2, gave strong responses, definitely 
positive, and those as 3, 4, and 5 responded with increasing intensity in 
that order.

Briefly we found on variety No. 1, a Rumanian variety 97.5% of the 
plants tested would have been satisfactorily identified by the Beam test. 
That is assuming for the moment the single test would be sufficient, 
which I believe is generally understood not to be so.

Variety No. 2, another Rumanian variety, gave us 100%.

Variety No. 3, the third Rumanian variety, 87% of satisfactory 

Variety No. 5, Manchuria, 22.9% satisfactory response. 

Variety No. 6, Chinese, 13.8% satisfactory. 

Variety No. 9, Italian, 98.1%

There is a very decided difference between the Chinese, and 
Manchurian varieties on the one hand and the Rumanian and Italian 
varieties on the other.

Now there were some very interesting things in reference to the 
differences between the three test periods.

It is true that there was one rather decided change, particularly in 
the second test, but there was not as significant difference between the 
number of negative plants, nor was the difference worked with reference 


category No. l.

The interesting thing was where we had many in category 2 in the 
first testing, in the next testing a considerable increase appeared in 
category 4, with a corresponding decrease in category 2.

The actual number of negative plants was not significantly 
different. I believe the first test gave us 36, the second test 32, and the 
third test 40.

During the course of our activities we found that molding had no 
apparent effect on one alkaline test response of either negative or 
positive plants. We permitted them to mold in a. very moist place for a 
period of five weeks. There was no change in the Beam test.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I want to ask Dr. Wright a question. In 
harvesting the plant, Doctor, we understand that the farmer usually 
harvests it before the resin reaches its highest stage. Is that true?

DR. WRIGHT: I will say yes, not knowing when the highest stage of 
the resin is reached myself, but from what I could gather from talking to 
Mr. Wollner and Dr. Link and those most familiar with the subject. It is cut 
in the mid-blossom stage, and from what I understand the plants are 
usually expected to have a high content of resin at that time.


COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: In our eradication program, 16,000 acres 
have been gone over, and as I understand it we will also have to go over 
that same acreage during the coming year, and probably the third year. Do 
you know how long that seed will remain dormant in the soil? 

DR. WRIGHT: I can only give you some guess on that. It is quite 
variable, and how long the seed will remain in the soil is simply my guess. 
If it is harvested the first year, before pollination occurs I would expect 
that to handle the situation under most circumstances. I am basing that on 
practical observation and experience, but if there is a repetition and the 
plant does become a volunteer plant, if the same process as followed for 
two years we could expect almost complete eradication. 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: What seed could replace the hemp seed as 
bird food? There is a lot of growth throughout the country due to the 
casting about of bird seed. Now, however we require sterilization of hemp 
seed. We have not reached the 100% point in sterilization but the seed 
people tell us they should sell the seed in 5% mixtures; but even 5%, 
mixtures if the seed is not properly sterilized, might produce some wild 
growth. Have you any suggestions on that?


DR. WRIGHT: I believe that these gentlemen here from the animal 
biology department might be better able to judge of that than I am.

DR., COUCH: As a matter of fact, I do not know anything on that point, 
and we have not gone into it at all. I am extremely interested however.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I think there should be some discussion 
as to the relative activities between the male and the female plants.

DR. BLATT: May I ask a question of Dr. Robinson? As I understand it, 
the average production is about 500 tons a year. Is that 500 tons of fibre?

DR. ROBINSON: Yes. This past summer, we had 1300 acres of hemp 
produced commercially in this country, and it has been running about that 
acreage with the exception that in 1934 and 1935 this acreage appeared in 
Minnesota, and in 1936 and 1937 we had a big acreages in Illinois, but 
those were acreages planted, you might say, for other purposes than the 
ordinary use, for there was an idea of producing fibre as a substitute for a 
wool and various things of that nature. Those industries that attempted to 
do that, for one reason or another, have dropped by the wayside, and 1000 
to 1500 acres is the normal hemp production each year in the United 


MR. WOLLNER: Professor Wright, you heard Commissioner Anslinger's 
question for information on the relationship between male and female 
plants. You are undoubtedly aware of most of the discussions in the past 
years on the subject of Marihuana, and that it has centered around the 
female plant. As a matter of fact, I believe the United States 
Pharmacopoeia refers to the flowering type of the female plant, and it is 
stated that Marihuana comes mostly from the female plant. I wonder 
whether historically that might not have arisen from the fact that 
possibly the male plant flowered at an earlier period than the female 
plant in the growth of the plant itself, and at the time of harvesting by 
force of circumstance they were limited to harvesting female tops.

DR. WRIGHT: Not actually knowing it, I could not say, of course, but I 
am sure that is the answer. In the male plant the leaves drop off long 
before, the female plant, and when the traffickers have reached the plant 
the leaves have practically all gone from the male, but the females are 

MR. LEVINE: Is there any distinction between the fiber of males and 

DR. WRIGHT: You see, in fibre, they are cut at an early stage when the 
female plants are just forming the


bud, and the male plants just shedding the pollen.

MR. WOLLNER: Then the male plant would grow as tall as the female 

DR. WRIGHT: Yes, they do usually reach the same height.
MR. WOLLNER. When produced for fibre, the plant does not reach the 
height we experienced in Arlington.

DR. WRIGHT: It has reached its full height when cut for fibre. You 
planted it in rows, too, which would add to the height.

MR. HERWICK: I should like to ask Professor Wright a question as to 
whether or not there was any quantity of Cannabis raised in this country 
for commercial drug purposes.

DR. WRIGHT: I cannot answer that question.

DR. ROBINSON: Undoubtedly there are others here who could furnish 
that information. I do not know of a single case where any of it has been 
furnished companies for that purpose, but I think there are companies that 
get it for that purpose.

MR. SMITH: There was a concern that grew it in Indianapolis several 
years ago for their own purposes.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Most of the pharmaceutical houses before 
enactment of Federal Marihuana Legislation


obtained their Cannabis supply from the Middle West. There was relatively 
little importation of Cannabis for medical purposes.

DR. COUCH: In the Food and Drug Administration, we occasionally see 
a questionnaire sent to the importers more or less of the patent medicine 
type, and also some well known pharmaceutical houses where cannabis is 
still found in the formula for certain products. Under the Pure Food and 
Drug Act, we have some requirements on that, and we are informed what 
the source of it is, whether gotten in this country or through importation.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I think the stocks of some of the larger 
houses who are still putting this out are sufficient to carry them over for 
a considerable period of time. Some of the firms transferred or sold their 
product to other houses, but I know of a number of occasions where raw 
material was obtained in this country for the local trade.

DR. WRIGHT: I have been informed by Doctors that they did get a 
considerable amount of their prepared processed material from Mexico. I 
was wondering if there was any processing plant in Mexico.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I did not know they imported it for 
medical uses from Mexico.


DR. MUNCH: Many of the commercial manufacturers have grown it, but 
because of the extreme variability of the potency of the material they 
were growing themselves, they attempted to import it from Madras or 
Bombay. But the material imported was often weaker than that grown in 
this country. So the next step was to purchase from Mr. Young at 
Charleston, South Carolina, or the general neighborhood of Lexington, 
Kentucky, or Nantou, Illinois. But, those sources folded up within the last 
ten years and there has not been any substantial production of material in 
the United States since then. I tested most of the material grown in this 
country that has been offered.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I suppose that seed came from Kentucky, 
which in turn came from China.

DR. MUNCH: That is true, but I have tested material grown in the 
United States commercially that was more potent in its physiological 
aspects than that imported from India.

MR. FULLER: I think that came about as a result of the interest that 
developed in the production of it during the war, or just before we got into 
the war, because at that time I was in the field myself and grew it com-
mercially for four or five years in Virginia from that same stock of seed 
that Young used in South Carolina, and


which was obtained from the Bureau of Plant Industry. I do not know 
whether he got it from Dewey or not.

The plan we adopted was to cull out as much as possible the tall 
plants for purely commercial reasons. We could not get so much material 
from the tall plants. In other words, bushy plants grew up six and seven 
feet high, giving much more drug than those that grew up taller but not so 
bushy, When we considered it the proper time, you would grab hold of it. It 
felt like a sponge. We collected enough material then to produce a drug 
very much more potent than any imported material that came into the 

It was our experience that it really did not make much difference 
where the hemp came from, after it had been grown here and become 
acclimated to our conditions you could select bushy plants from it, and it 
was just as potent. It did not make any difference where it came from. We 
used to cull our plants, particularly the male plants. I used to think it did 
not have much effect, but be that as it may, that was what we did. I do not 
think we could have ever used the male plants anyway for, in stripping, 
the amount of material obtained was so small.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: How did you strip the plant?

MR. FULLER: It was a very easy process. It was done by women, and 
they used gloves. In all of the years we


were producing that material as far as we knew, there never was a case of 
where anybody used it for illegitimate purposes. In fact at that time, I do 
not think there was any Marihuana used. But, it did not pay us to go on.

I think a great deal of the Cannabis sold in the drug trade came from 
the wild materials that grew in the Middle West and one of the largest 
dealers in drugs handled that crop. I knew him very well, and he told me at 
the time.

DR. BROMBERG: What further preparation was there after stripping 
for medicinal purposes?

MR. FULLER: We just baled it and sold it.

DR. BROMBERG: Any other processing necessary?

MR. FULLER: In the manufacturing of medicinals, it has to be 
extracted usually with alcohol end concentrated down to a solid extract. 
There was no attempt, and I do not think there has been any attempt made, 
to separate for commercial purposes the active principle, for even with 
all of the work done, we do not know what it is.

MR. WOLLNER: Did you find, Mr. Fuller, in your growth of the plant 
commercially, that arid seasons or drier seasons would increase, or 
produce an increased quantity of resin?


MR. FULLER: I do not think we noticed any difference. Now, I was in 
that portion of Virginia very near to Washington on the first plateau, six 
or eight miles out, and some of those summers were very dry. We would 
get sometimes six weeks without rain, and it did not seem to affect the 
yield at all. One season, I recall particularly, there was a great deal of 
rain, and the crop was just about the same.

MR. WOLLNER: I would like to offer this thought to the Department of 
Agriculture. The statement is invariably made by people in Europe and the 
Far East and Near East that the amount of resin produced by a plant is in a 
measure proportionate to the rainfall, and the less rainfall the more resin. 
I wonder whether we are actually dealing with the question of the 
variation in the amount of resin produced as against the amount of resin 
exuded. That is to say, isn't it possible as a result of a condition, all that 
happens is the plant structure, so to speak, shrinks to evaporation and 
greater amount of resin appears on the surface, but the absolute quantity 
contained by the flowering tops and the leaves is the same ?

DR. ROBINSON: I think your point is well taken, and it was my 
intention to go into some of those points


in those tests throughout the United States. We collected material 
over at Arlington Farm last summer at various stages for the purpose of 
making a microtome test of these little pockets. So far we have not had 
time to do very much on that, and there are gentlemen here who have done 
more. We actually found those pockets present in pants two weeks old and 
on varying specimens which we have in our office. We want back to plants 
that were less [than] three weeks old and we found there hashish material. 
Now in older plants in some of the specimens we have of Indian hemp, it 
seemed to be exuded from the cells all over the surface, and I imagine in 
such plants as that, if it exuded if you touched it, much more would come 
off than if it had not exuded. Is that what you mean, certain climatic 
conditions would cause cells to erupt, and the viscosity of the exudate 
would be such that it would spread.

MR. WOLLNER: I am thinking in terms of opium or the poppy. You can 
get opium from the pod without scarifying, and the thought struck me, in 
the case of Cannabis, since the leaf is always extracted in this country, 
and since in the past the process has been of rubbing it from the outside, 
in the East, they get more resin than we do, due to the fact that more has 
exuded but not

more produced.

DR. HIBBEN: There is another factor involved in the question about 
rainfall, and the formation of resin, and that is perhaps the production of 
resin would depend upon the amount of sunshine, and the more rainfall, the 
less sunshine. In tomato plants for example, the Department of 
Agriculture has done a great deal of experimentation as to foliage, and [it] 
has been shown that the quantity of foliage depends greatly upon the 
duration of sunshine the plant has received.

MR. WOLLNER: I had not thought of that. 

DR. HIBBEN: Some plants require a great deal of sunshine. 

DR. WRIGHT: May I ask you this question, - I was interested in the 
fact that you selected the bushy plant believing it more profitable to do 


DR. WRIGHT: Did you have any observations at all to indicate they 
were more potent or more satisfactory to the purchaser than the more 
slender plants; have you any reason to believe there is a difference 
between the two?

MR. FULLER: No, I do not think there is any difference, for the green 
leaf from the male plant yields resin, and as far as we could determine, 
the resin was just as


potent as the female. You do not get so much per plant. That was 
what we were interested in, but, as far as quality is concerned, I do not 
think there was any difference.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: And now, Gentlemen, if we have no more 
questions on the agricultural phase of the problem we will proceed to a 
little more controversial subject. The pharmacological phase. I would like 
to have Dr. Munch give us a little history of the pharmacology of 


DR. MUNCH: So far as the external effects are concerned of the fluid 
extract of Cannabis, the effects are hyperesthesia, fomication, and cold 
extremities. These cause increase in intensity. It is not local.

So far as the gastro-intestinal tract is concerned, there is no effect upon 
the taste. There is a tendency towards an increase in thirst and appetite, 
and large doses will cause nausea, emesis, vomiting, and the drugs 
produced diarrhea or constipation.
So far as the effect on the brain, I am only going into that to this 
extent, to say that in connection with USPVIII which was thirty years ago 
we were interested


in knowing whether the American grown plant could be used as well as 
that which had been imported from India. The study made by the American 
Drug Manufacturers Association and by others at that time led the USP 
official Committee to the stand that either the Indian or the American 
grown material would be comparable for medicinal purposes so long as it 
was tested and found to have a certain physiological effect, and from a 
number of bio-tests that were made in which the material was 
administered to dogs, there were three different effects produced, one 
effect being to cause the dog to sway from side to side, and back and 
forth, and finally not to be able to stand erect at all. It was then that 
satisfactory material was produced which would produce such a response.
When it became necessary to prepare revised standards for world 
use of the Cannabis, we standardized the standards. First, we obtained 
material from various manufacturers in this country representing the 
ordinary strength or potency of the product and then many of these 
manufacturers told me of the material of ten or twenty or thirty years 
before, and they gave me the products or materials which were of the 
same commercial strength as they have always been marketing.

Then through various means, we obtained drugs and


standardized those products, that is thirteen different products of this 
series of drugs. Those products were then mixed, and constituted the USP 
fluid extract of Cannabis, which was officially recognized in USP X.

Then as to the method of bio-assay. Contrary to much of the 
published literature we find that dogs vary as greatly in their response as 
do humans. On. some 500 dogs I have used, fully one-half were very 
insensitive, and were discarded immediately. The nervous type or short-
haired dog is usually a satisfactory animal but not necessarily the best.

Going back to the pharmacological action, so far as the causes, and 
effect on circulation, a small dose causes rapid beating of the heart which 
may be followed by less than normal. The blood pressure is usually 
unchanged, or there is a slight fall.

So far as the blood is concerned, there is a definite increase in the 
hypoglycemiacal content. At the same time, there is a definite increase in 
the blood sugar. Enormous doses have produced death by cardiac failure, 
but the doses were 100 to 200 times doses, which produced a tremendous 
physiological effect.

If smoked, there is a tendency to choking or coughing, and all doses 
tend to decrease the respiratory needs.


So far as the muscles are concerned, the muscles show a definite 
confusion, and with very large doses there are shown flexor spasms. But 
not with a therapeutic dose.

So far as the pupils of the eyes themselves, there is a very definite 
contraction of the conjunctiva, and usually but not always a dilation of 
the pupil.

So far as the effect on the glands, there is probably a double 
diuretical effect. There is a question, and the production of the diuretic 
effect is unsettled.

It has been reported there is a sexually stimulating effect. Some say 
it does and some say it does not exist.

So far as antidotes are concerned the thought is, if it has been 
swallowed, the administration of an emetic, caffeine or acid drinks in 

So far as the habituation is concerned, it has been claimed and 
denied, and so far as elimination is concerned, I have not been able to 
detect it in the urine. So, I do not believe the active principle is 
eliminated by urine.

In the general pharmacopoeia developed by O'Shaunessy in 1843, 
which reached its peak ten or fifteen years later, it was clinically 
recommended for all sorts of diseases and later found worthless.

There is a definite decrease in the central Indian


drug which stimulated further work done by Casparis and others, after 
which it appears to have gone into innocuous desuetude until it began to be 
criminally exploited, which led to the present burst of study.

Pharmacology is right I think, when it is said it does not have the 
same effect, or one effect on the brain, and I may be sticking my head out 
when I make a suggested answer that the cause of the awful intoxication 
is largely due to the difference in the rate of absorption, whether the 
material is smoked or given by solution or in capsules and taken into the 
stomach, or given rectally, and also the susceptibility on the brain, 
because in many instances we have given the same material to humans or 
dogs. Some of the animals it has shown no effect upon, others it has 
shown an enormous effect with the same dose. So far as animals are 
concerned, we have made a comparative study and find that dogs and 
rabbits have proven most suitable for quantitative assays but none can be 
relied on for qualitative accuracy, that is 10 to 12%. That is a complete 
change from what I said in my book,1 but it is possible, by running from 14 
to 20 bio-assay, to obtain results accurate within plus or minus 11 to 
20%. But, it never has been done commercially and can only be done in 
connection with research.


Through what channels does the active principle find its way into 
the nerve centers? I should say through the blood.
So far as the effect on the blood pressure, I have attempted to cover 
those reflex changes. It has been stated and denied that there are 
significant lesions in the brain of humans. Dogs I have used for some 
years, in some instances showed certain types of brain changes. Whether 
those are connected with Cannabis, I do not know. I am trying to complete 
that now and perhaps within the next five years I can answer the question.
Regarding the other questions, I would rather refer those to Dr. 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Before we enter into a general discussion, I 
would like to call on Dr. Loewe of Cornell University to give us a 
statement on the bio-assay method.


DR. LOEWE: The bio-assay, in my opinion, is the point where the 
pharmacologist has to enter this manifold picture at which we arrive in 
this conference for a very significant reason.


The reason is that all the manifold aspects of Marihuana are focused 
around and makes the existence of an active principle in this drug, active 
principles which are chemically not known, and as long as an active 
principle is not chemically known, it can only be determined from its 
action, that is, biologically, which can only be by bio-assay.

Dr. Munch has thoroughly depicted the many aspects of the 
pharmacological action of Marihuana. That is what we can call the 
pharmacological spectrum of this drug, But it must be emphasized, that 
the spectrum of the drug as such and not on one certain active principle 
necessarily, for nobody knows the active principle, and nobody ever knows 
whether there is only one active principle or more than one active 

It can be assumed from the beginning that there is more than one 
active principle but this must not necessarily concern the Marihuana 
interests, because the problem is narrowed to that active principle among 
possibly many active principles which produces the narcotic or "dope" 
action in humans.

Even with respect to this point, of course, we are not one hundred 
percent sure that this is the action of one principle or more than one.


Quantitative bio-assay of the active principle of Marihuana, of 
course, tends or aims to determine that one active principle or a complex 
of active principles, which is interesting from the human point of view, 
the narcotic principle. May I mention right here that as long as we do not 
know how many active principles there are, we have to assume primarily 
that every action is carried by a separate active principle, and with this 
assumption, may I speak for the definite ataxia principle, which is the 
principle which can be bio-assayed in the drug which produces the main 
action stored in the dog. There is another action in the drug, which I may 
call the depressant action, the cataleptic action, and then there is the 
anesthetic principle which can be studied in the rabbit, using the 
depression of the corneal reflex. The depressant action in the mouse, 
manifested by prolonging the hypnotic action, is an action which I have 
observed and used to bio-assay this one active principle.

Now, bio-assay has to start, therefore, with this, which one of these 
actions is preferable for the Marihuana problem for studying the narcotic 
principle, important for humans?

We have much evidence that the ataxia action is fairly well related 
to the narcotic action.


In detail, there is not much to say. Walton has elaborated the 
previous effects and experiences of the bio-assay of the drug in a fairly 
good manner. There are details, and certainly it is necessary to bio-assay 
a large number of animals due to the individual natures and non-
susceptibility which complicates the actions, and action can only be 
compared in one and the same animal, and only for comparison in a single 
animal, and the consequence is that a large group of animals has to be 

The mode of administration has been emphasized by Dr. Munch. I 
would prefer and do prefer, for bio-assay, intravenous administration 
because the Marihuana action has a very long period of latency without the 
means of elimination from the system, so that the results seem to be 
fairly well comparable.

Now, I am of the opinion, just like Dr. Munch has emphasized, that 
the bio-assay method of the drug is not definitely eliminated. I have the 
impression that the method will result in fairly good accuracy, but it is an 
accuracy of plus or minus 15 or 20%, and which will suffice, I suppose, for 
the period in which bio-assay is necessary.

It is the unfortunate situation of the pharmacologist that in certain 
periods of development of active princi-


ples he is available for the purpose, and in a certain sense he is the man 
charged with the entire problem.  But, his unfortunate situation is that 
just when he has developed this method and applied it, it is always finally 
inherent that he is out of the picture for, as soon as the chemist comes 
into the picture, and the bio-assay is not any more necessary, the 
pharmacologist can be dropped.  If I may mention this at random, all of 
these points of view are true also as to the chemical test.  Before the 
chemist has developed the active principle, the chemical method of 
identification of much or great importance to the country, and they may be 
of much or less importance for identifying the active principles than are 
the bio-assay methods, but only after the discovery of the active principle 
and its chemical properties, the problem of the chemical test, the 
importance of the Beam test can become clear.
I know of another example where a greater activity of a certain drug 
was found, and the drug was not white but yellow, and this, of course, 
introduced many beliefs that yellow colors and opticals would be an easy 
expedient for getting a quantitative activity.  So, there was developed a 
number of tests for this drug, going into this problem, but finally it turned 
out what general color


of the narcotic or commodity was and the reason for the high activity of 
the drug.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Well, Doctor, we are going to have the 
chemists confer among themselves, and they will then give us some of 
their views. I think we can reserve the general discussion for the 

We will now hear from Dr. Walter Bromberg, Senior Psychiatrist of 
the Department of Hospitals, City of New York.


DR. BROMBERG: To start with, my interest in this Marihuana problem 
began in 1933 when I reported at Bellevue Hospital a group of 11 cases of 
mental reactions induced by smoking Marihuana and I reviewed the 
literature and medical knowledge at that time. Also, the experience which 
I obtained was at the Psychiatric Clinic of the Court of General Sessions 
over a period of six years. Persons showing overt mental symptoms were 
brought to the hospital by interested relatives and occasionally on a 
magistrate's order. For that reason, the vast majority of Marihuana 
smokers did not reach the hospital. Cases which came before the Clinic 
had passed through the Court of General Sessions and had been arraigned, 
indicted and


convicted of a felony.

There has been considerable literature on the intoxication and 
insanity-producing effect of Cannabis, in papers from Asia, Europe, and 
the United States. To sum up this material concisely, it can be said that 
the several types of syndromes recognized fall into three groups: (a) 
intoxication, (b) toxic psychosis with or without admixture of other types 
of mental reactions (schizophrenia, manic-depressive) and (c) according 
to Eastern European and Asiatic observers, chronic dementia and 
deterioration following prolonged use of the drug. Apparently this latter 
type of deteriorating process has not been observed in American clinics.

Our experience with mental conditions following Marihuana indicate 
to us that there are two categories of mental reaction. The following 
classification is suggested:

Acute intoxication (Marihuana Psychosis) Containing sensory, motor 
and subjective elements, lasting hours to several days, often with anxiety 
or hysterical reactions, and panic states and depressions of transient 
Toxic Psychoses (a) in which there are many admixtures of disturbed 
sensorlum, delusional and emotional reactions amounting to psychosis, but 
with the common characteristic

toxic signs and (b) functional psychoses of a typical variety, initiated by 
Marihuana or colored by Marihuana in their symptomatology, but which 
continue in the form of the underlying psychosis. In these cases Marihuana 
represents an incipient stage in the psychosis, apparently.

There were 14 cases of Acute Intoxication and 17 of Toxic 

The point at which the line is drawn between acute intoxicating due 
to Marihuana and psychosis due to Marihuana depends on the degree and 
severity of the symptoms. Acute intoxications, induced by smoking one to 
four cigarettes, bring about after an interval varying from one-half to five 
hours in the individual one or all of the following symptoms: an increase 
in motor activity, a feeling of excitement, mental confusion, 
disorientation, crowding of perception, elementary visual illusions and 
hallucinations, euphoria and talkativeness. In addition to these symptoms, 
numerous subjective experiences occur, such as increased speed of 
thought processes, a feeling of intellectual brilliance, change in time 
perception, various somatic feelings, dizziness, hunger, a feeling of 
swelling of the head, lightness of the extremities, a sensation of walking 
on air, lengthening of the limbs and sexual illusions. More often sex 
excitement consists


in the fact that the possible sexual objects in his environment 
become extraordinarily desirable. There is abundant evidence in our 
clinical and experimental material to show that the stimulus for sexual 
interest and activity derives from the aesthetic enhancement of objects 
in the environment. It is not so much a matter of increased potency on the 
part of the user as increased reaction to sexual fantasies and illusions. 
One of our patients said: "I saw black and white women lying in bed with 
legs separated, as if expecting men . . . some women in the park with 
nothing on, doing nasty dances, moving their hips. I chased after them." 
Others state women appear amazingly beautiful. Another patient said: "In 
the subway I felt very sexy. I wanted to touch every woman that passed."

The speeded-up physical motility has its counterpart in rapid 
speech. There is a feeling on the part of the individual that he is witty, 
even brilliant; his ideas flow quickly and words come readily to the 
tongue. Conclusions and answers seem to come to mind ready-formed and 
surprisingly clear, without the effort of thinking. This feelings of clarity 
is, of course, spurious. Actually the productions of the intoxicant are hard 
to follow, for when he wishes to explain what he has thought there is


only confusion. The rapid flow of ideas gives a subjective 
impression of brilliance of thought and observation. The sense of 
increased speed of thinking apparently has an effect on memory - hence 
the confusion that appears on trying to recall what was thought during the 

The smoker finds it pleasant to be with others and to impart his 
experiences to them. This is reflected in the fact that Marihuana is 
ordinarily smoked at parties or in groups. It is felt that this need for a 
social setting is a reaction to an inner anxiety arising from the threat of 
bodily destruction implied in somatic illusions induced by Marihuana In 
the ordinary case of smoking Marihuana, especially with one who is used 
to the drug, this threat becomes converted to euphoria which develops to 
uncontrollable fits of laughter. Nevertheless inquiry shows that almost 
every smoker is aware of definite uneasiness at the outset of the 
intoxication. The description from smokers in Harlem and from 
experimental subjects agrees on this point. In the words of a user of two 
years' standing, initiates "shrink together, feel tight inside and get 
frightened." After they smoke it more than once, the reality of these 
frightening somatic illusions becomes less. In occasional instances, and 
these are the cases


which are apt to come to medical attention, the fear of death, of insanity, 
of bodily deformity and of bodily dissolution are startling. These patients 
are tense, nervous, frightened, they may develop a state of panic. Often 
suicide or assaultive acts are the result of these emotional states. The 
anxiety state is so common in patients admitted to the hospital for 
uncomplicated Marihuana psychosis, that it can be considered part of the 
intoxication syndrome.

Notes taken on experimental subjects who were psychologically 
trained illustrate these points:

Subject l. Two cigarettes were smoked within 40 minutes. 
Immediately after the second a feeling of lightness in vertex of head was 
felt. Head was expanding; there was a feeling of mild excitement. Now the 
head felt heavy and there was a definite feeling of lengthening in the legs 
and a tension in the back muscles of the thigh. Head felt alternately light 
and heavy. There was a sensation as though the top of the head were lifted 
with about four inch increase in height, accompanied by optic images of 
skulls and skeletons. Feeling of the arms rising up in the air.
Subject was aware of a feeling of confusion. Suddenly he saw 
images of legs and arms in a dissecting


room which were terrifying.
Subject 2. "I felt a little euphoric at first, but with the first draw 
my heart feels faster, my eyes a little heavier. I feel myself perspiring all 
over, and shaking. I can feel a slight dizziness. I feel weak; the dizziness 
has left and I am perspiring (Asked to walk around the room. Refuses to do 
so and becomes negativistic).
On looking back I remembered that I had sexual thoughts during the 
time of the experiment. Time seems to pass in a peculiar way, there being 
a combination of fastness and slowness. I took my first inhalation a few 
minutes after 9 and when I looked at the clock and saw it was 10 after 9. I 
was very much surprised because it seemed like hours. The whole 
experiment seems now as if it lasted much longer than it did. Walking 
home I walked slowly in front of oncoming cars and felt a sense of 
recklessness connected with not being able to walk faster and not caring."

It is remarkable how much anxiety is developed when one looks for 
experimental subjects among laymen. The drug is popularly supposed to 
release aggressive and sexual impulses beyond the point of control; it is 
also regarded as being habit-forming. The legendary history and social 
connotation of hashish smoking may help to de-


velop in those who have had no experience with the drug, a series of 
anxieties masking sexual fantasies and aggressive impulses. This has 
come almost to the point of mass hysteria. Some public officials are 
unwilling to allow the use of Marihuana cigarettes for experimentation 
purposes, on the ground that it may be "immoral," tending to foster the 
development of drug addiction among the public. This frequent anxiety 
concerning Cannabis may have as its source the feeling of dissolution and 
other somatic changes induced in smokers which is communicated 
somehow to the non-smoking public.

In clinical material as indicated, Marihuana effects may range from 
mild intoxications to transitory psychoses which require psychiatric aid. 
The effects vary and not all the symptoms occur in every case. Illustrative 
of the Marihuana psychosis with anxiety reactions, and somatic sensory 
A 31 year old white man, admitted March 27, 1934, with a history of 
having smoked just one cigarette. On admission the patient was depressed, 
retarded, apprehensive. He admitted smoking Marihuana. Was oriented and 
memory showed no defects. Physical examination was negative. The 
patient states, "My hand began to feel blue all of a sudden. I felt like 
laughing and I felt


funny in my head. it was the queerest feeling I ever had. I felt like I was 
kind of fainting away like. I sweat and then I’d get kind of chilly. I got the 
scare of my life. I thought I was going to die and everything else. I knew 
what was happening all the time. I thought my hands were beginning to get 
blue. My throat began to get kind of dry. It was a little better than getting 
drunk. I did not want to step down from the curb—it seemed to be so high. I 
was sitting down and was afraid to get up." Patient improved and on the 
second day was less apprehensive, was pleasant and cheerful. He was 
discharged as recovered, after two days.

This case demonstrates visual illusions, which recall the 
megalopsia (perceiving objects larger than they are), and more common 
micropsia, which has been reported experimentally and clinically. It is 
this type of illusion, induced by hashish, that may have been the basis for 
the story of Aladdin who saw the tremendous genie emerge from his lamp 
spout in the Arabian Nights' tale.

A 32 year old Irish-American, admitted September 17, 1937, with a 
history of smoking Marihuana cigarettes two hours prior to admission. He 
felt dizzy, wanted to commit suicide by jumping out of windows, bumping 
head on the wall, floor, etc. On admission was uneasy, ap-


prehensive, impulsive. Said, "I feel sick. I'm going through hell. I saw 
trucks coming at me getting larger and I wanted to open the door of the 
cab and jump out." He was discharged as improved in his own custody 
about 12 hours after admission.

A common type of intoxication is indicated in the following case:

A 38 year old Negro, admitted April 13, 1934, with history that he 
had run out of the house poorly clad and that he had smoked "artificial" 
cigarettes. He was confused on admission, was dazed in appearance and 
disoriented. He described a lightness of the head, dizziness and seeing 
star-shaped figures before his eyes after smoking a "doped" cigarette. He 
was apprehensive on examination. On the second or third day after 
admission, apprehension had disappeared and he was discharged as 
recovered, being clear, composed, but unable to account for his earlier 

It is not uncommon to find the history of admixture of other drugs or 
alcohol in Cannabis intoxication. Frequently alcohol intensifies the 
Cannabis symptomatology.

A 27 year old man of old American stock, admitted on June 18, 1933, 
at his own request. He had been a chronic alcoholic and displayed definite 
evidences of psycho-


pathic makeup; had marked inferiority because of his eyes and body 
structure. On admission he appeared to be apprehensive, a little excited, 
spoke coherently and relevantly. His experiences were rather clearly set 
forth--"I was down on the water-front. A fellow gave me an Egyptian 
cigarette to smoke . . . it was hashish. About an hour afterwards I began to 
see things. I'd see things flying in the air. This made me laugh and I'd laugh 
at things not worth laughing at. Then I began to see green and other colors 
flowing before my eyes. Then things got black. I imagined people were 
following me and I screamed in my hotel and got kicked out. I still see red 
lines in front of my eyes and other different colors all stuck together. 
Then I began to hear bells that would get fainter and fainter and then start 
again. Imagined someone was after me all evening. I thought I heard 
footsteps and saw people ducking in and out of doorways behind. me. At 
the time I said to myself maybe it all affect my eyes. I seen a big splotch 
in front of me — it was scarlet— very bright, exceptionally bright. It 
contracted, then faded away. I knew all the time it was due to hashish."

The second group comprises cases of toxic psychosis due to or 
initiated by Cannabis. There may be other


toxic agents present, as alcohol, other drugs, infective or other 
endogenous elements. Disordered sensorium, excitement and agitation, 
retardation, blocking with emotional rigidity, hallucinations, sensations 
of somatic change, delusional experiences may appear in the toxic 
psychosis. The psychosis lasts from weeks to months. Often the mental 
picture crystallizes out into a schizophrenic or manic depressive 
psychosis after several weeks or months (see paradigm). At the onset .of 
the illness what can be considered characteristic Cannabis symptom-
atology is discernible. As the underlying functional psychosis develops, 
the toxic elements recede.

A boy of 16, admitted February 27, 1934, with statement from the 
family that for two months he had been depressed, apprehensive, worried, 
scratching his hands in a nervous manner, prayed constantly. He 
complained that somebody read his thoughts. On admission was well 
developed and showed no physical signs. Patient was agitated, depressed, 
talked constantly in a bizarre manner about the devil influencing him, etc. 
Said: "I felt lightly when I was walking - as if I weighed only 10 pounds. I 
felt like running my whole body was light. I felt like jumping. As if I was 
walking on air. I felt happy. Then I saw yellow lights all around me. I saw 
blue and green


too. The colors were more bright than usual. There are just masses of 
colors - sometimes I see a black cross with everything red behind it. That 
means there is a God. He is helping me. The devil knows the evil thoughts 
in me." This agitated condition improved and patient was discharged about 
3 weeks after admission as a psychosis due to drugs; acute hallucinatory 

Patient was readmitted August 1st of that year with a picture of a 
depression with schizoid features. On this admission there were no 
evidences whatever of the sensory illusions and somatic feelings that he 
had previously when he smoked Marihuana. He was transferred to the state 
hospital, where he remained four years, being diagnosed as Paranoid 
Schizophrenia with Catatonic Features. There he was restless and 
overactive. He had a marked push of speech, expressed ideas of reference 
and religious delusions and was manneristic. Said: "I figured the devil was 
trying to pull me away from God so I cut a cross on my arm. Physically I 
am the same, but mentally I am another person. ...I feel that people 
influence me by touching me - like injecting dope." Later he was 
manneristic, grimaced, was untidy, repeated practically all questions 
asked, answered briefly and usually vaguely and would say, "I don' know 
exactly," or "I don't


know." He remained dull, apathetic, indifferent and mute until the present 

The personality factor is of undoubted importance in this group of 
individuals. After the toxic state passed off in these patients in whom the 
intoxication reaches deeply enough into the personality, a basic psy-chotic 
state developed. At times, the toxic features are in the background, the 
personality reactions being pre-dominant. What the inner relationship is 
between Cannabis and the onset of a functional psychotic state is not 
always clear. From our observation, the inner reaction to somatic 
sensation seems to be vital. Such reactions consisted of panic states 
which disappeared as soon as the stimulus (effects of the drug) faded. It 
is generally known in psychopathology that when the perception of our 
own bodily sensations is disturbed we are liable to be profoundly affected 
psychologically. Disturbances in perception of the body-model 
(Korperschema), which is built up of kinesthetic, tactile, visual and other 
stimuli, and integrated into the core of the personality, elicit some type 
of reaction. Such disturbances act as a blow to the ego, invoking defensive 
reactions of anxiety, apprehension, projection, etc., which approach or are 
schizophrenic in their clinical manifestations. The


following case illustrates these points:

A 20 year-old colored man admitted February 22, 1936. He is said by 
his mother to have been "nervous" for some time, said he wanted to die, 
wanted to kill himself. Prior to admission his mother caught him with a 
bottle of lysol. He had been depressed and despondent. He was a boy of 
superior intelligence as measured by the Army Alpha test. On admission he 
stated that he used Marihuana for several months and during this time he 
had heard people talking about him They said' "Oh, what an ugly boy. How 
mean-looking he is." For four months, August to October, 1935, he smoked 
three to four cigarettes a day until he began to feel ill. At first Marihuana 
made him happy. Then he felt that he made a peculiar noise in his throat; 
ate once a day; was unable to sleep; and experienced auditory 
hallucinations. The hallucinations started four months ago and increased 
gradually. He thought his face was changing. He looked thin, mean, and 
ugly; he became self-conscious. He felt that every-one in the neighborhood 
knew it. He stated at times he seemed speeded up, but his mind was keenly 
alert with the development of the ideas of reference, he became self-
reproachful, apprehensive and fearful.

He was then transferred to a state hospital on March


13, 1936, where he stated his hallucinations had disappeared and his 
emotional reaction improved. After three months he was discharged to his 
home; within five months he was readmitted to Bellevue Hospital, where 
he had gone in a state of panic, and from where he was re-committed to a 
state hospital. He was tense, uneasy, still retained ideas of reference, 
acted oddly at home apparently in response to his delusions. Diagnosis on 
second admission to State Hospital was Dementia Praecox Paranoid Type, 
which was made about two years after the onset of the original illness.

Some cases showed the manic-depressive reactions, but these were 
in the minority. It is perhaps to be expected that schizophrenic-like 
psychoses are more common because individuals who take to drugs have 
some deep inadequacy to start with. The cyclothymic personality is less 
prone to require the drug.

A man of 28 who was brought to the hospital by his mother on 
February 13, 1938, with the history that he had been smoking reefers for 
some time. A year ago he had an episode, was not hospitalized and 
improved from it. On admission patient was confused, restless, apprehen-
sive. He engaged in violent daydreamings. At times he appeared to be 
reacting to hallucinations. He said he


"had a big head." He became talkative, euphoric, elated and overactive 
after a day or so. He said: "The best thing for me to do is. . . you look fine. 
I've got to look like you . I know what it is . . . when a Buick and a Packard 
get together." His speech was distinctly flighty, his behavior panicky; was 
constantly restless. Would cry, sing, talk.

He was transferred to a state hospital on February 24, 1938. There 
his condition persisted and he became somewhat depressed, but showed 
promise of recovery a few months after admission. Diagnosis at State 
Hospital was Manic Depressive Psychosis, Manic Type.

Mixed reactions merge with the toxic psychoses. These reactions 
vary clinically, some occurring in chronic alcoholics, some in 
schizophrenics and some in psychopathic personalities, and in all of them 
Marihuana usage was a factor. It can be clearly seen that aside from the 
direct toxic effect of the drug, the personality of the patient plays a 
tremendous role in psychotic states following Marihuana usage.

A Cuban, age 34, who was admitted on March 6, 1938, to Bellevue 
Hospital. He had been taking Marihuana for one and a half years. He had 
jumped in front of a south-bound subway train without injury. He was very 
depressed, dull, lackadaisical, despondent in attitude.


He was definitely under productive but still strongly suicidal. He 
described taking one cigarette every day of Marihuana for a year and a half 
because it took his worries away. For some time he had been conscious 
that people were looking at him He feels that his body is heavy all the 
time. Sometimes he hears deceased persons talking to him. He sees lights 
at times. At times he sees a photograph of a strange person.

His friend corroborated the history, stating that he had been in this 
depressed condition for 3-4 years. He had a work-house sentence for 2-3 
months for Marihuana. He was transferred to a state hospital March 18, 
1938. At that time he was dull, preoccupied, but lost his hallucinatory and 
delusional trends. The State Hospital diagnosed him as Schizophrenia, 
Hebephrenic Type (?) and he was released after two months.

In some cases the drug makes relatively little difference in the 
content of the psychosis. It is for the clinician to determine how much 
Marihuana influences the clinical picture. In South Africa, where dagga 
(equivalent of Marihuana) smoking is very widespread, a diagnosis of 
Marihuana psychosis is made in any "toxic psychosis where there are very 
good grounds for assuming addiction to dagga smoking." It is felt that 
there should


be more exact criteria, as we outlined above, for a diagnosis of 
Marihuana psychosis, by which we mean the presence of disordered 
sensorium, characteristic colored visual hallucinations, time changes, 
subjective and somatic feelings. One is apt to over-estimate the place of 
Marihuana in the causation of a psychotic picture.

A white man of 28, admitted January 23, 1938, to Bellevue Hospital 
with a history that he was in a state hospital in Arizona for 3 months 
about two years ago and one in Indiana for 9 months four years ago. "I was 
smoking this Marihuana weed (at time of admission to State Hospital in 
Arizona). I ran around the desert for a time, ran out nights and one day 
knocked on a door and told a woman I was Dillinger. I tried to see how 
much water I could walk in. I was just like hypnotized and walking in my 
sleep. Sometimes I feel like something's controlling me. Sometimes I feel 
just like I'm talking to somebody with my mouth closed. I just ask them a 
question with my brain and they answer. Sometimes it's a man, sometimes 
it's a woman's voice; it just works in my temple. I think it's imagination. 
It's just like a dream. People stare at me. Sometimes I see different 
colors. I had that years ago - just like a light coming towards me; it's not 
a light, it's an arc.


His effect was flat and he was dejected and slow-speaking. Showed 
blocking and evasiveness on. sex experiences. Had ideas of reference and 
persecutory ideas.

He was transferred to a state hospital, where he was noted as being 
preoccupied, under productive and somewhat dissociated. He stated that he 
had some sort of seizures that were not really fits, but that when he had 
them if he had a sword he would not mind cutting everybody's head off. He 
also believed if anybody got killed near the place where he worked he 
would be blamed for it. Said that when he looks in bright lights he sees 
visions like all sorts of different colors, blues, whites, and these seem to 
blind him. A diagnosis was made of Dementia Praecox, Paranoid Type, and 
he was still in State Hospital after five months.

In psychopathic personalities, those with deep inferiorities, use of 
drugs is a method of supporting the ego. In these cases Marihuana does not 
always produce the desirable effect. Apparently it is not strong enough to 
affect the problems which have involved deeper layers of the personality. 
Such individuals adopt heroin or morphine very soon after a short 
experience with Marihuana. The experience of drug addicts seen at the 
Court of General Sessions confirms this. Persons addicted to


heroin, morphine, cocaine or opium never return to Cannabis. Such 
individuals are admittedly psychopathic in that they need an increment of 
drug to make their lives tolerable, In the next case, the use of Cannabis 
represented the attempt of the patient to overcome his sexual inadequacy. 
In this respect the social psychology of the drug is a factor, since 
Marihuana is popularly supposed to free sexual inhibitions.

A white man, age 23, admitted to Bellevue Hospital on March 31, 
1938, with a history that he felt unworthy and thought he had a venereal 
disease. He held ideas of infidelity against his wife and was assaultive. 
Threw a four month old baby across a room. He turned gas jets on. On 
admission he was rambling, talkative, evasive, depressed, self-absorbed 
and had somatic complaints.

He said: 'I was sentenced to the Workhouse for 4 months for smoking 
Marihuana. I knew then I was not satisfying my wife and I thought it might 
help. A year ago some friends gave me the weed, I smoked several. I felt 
calm and liked to listen to music - very happy - exhilarating feeling - 
that's all."

In the hospital he was talkative, discussed his problem in detail and 
showed some depression, which improved. The infidelity ideas and his 
sexual inadequacies concerned him most. He was transferred to a state 
hospital with a


diagnosis of Psychosis with Psychopathic Personality; Cannabis usage a 

Often Cannabis intoxication represents a stage in the incipiency of a 
psychosis. The patient who is developing a functional psychosis strives in 
the incipient stage to overcome the unconsciously perceived difficulties. 
In this sense Marihuana usage represents a healthy reaction tendency, even 
though the mechanism may be unknown to the patient. The next case 
illustrated this problem. A boy who had made a successful adjustment on a 
moderate level of social attainment began to show schizoid behavior 
shortly after the usage of Marihuana. The process continued to a psychotic 
state. What role did the drug play? Could the psychosis have begun without 
the drug? Was the use of Cannabis the patient's attempt to cure his 
developing psychosis? These are problems needing careful judgment and 
study and wide clinical experience.

A young Negro, 20, admitted October 2, 1936 to Bellevue Hospital 
with a history of having been dull, indifferent for some time. Insisted 
upon keeping the windows closed, would not leave the house, but denied he 
heard voices. Would masturbate openly and made sign with fingers, and 
actions were decidedly peculiar. Mother states she caught him. smoking a 


cigarette with a white man and soon after got a history from his 
playmates that he had been smoking Marihuana cigarettes for a long time.

Observation in the hospital confirmed his withdrawn, retarded 
attitude. Psychometric gave an IQ. of 75 with rating of Borderline to Dull 
Normal Intelligence. Was pre-occupied on ward; difficult to obtain his 
attention; evasive; offered many excuses for closing window and putting 
out lights. About 10 days after admission he appeared a little more alert 
and cheerful. He was discharged in custody of mother as Incipient 
Schizophrenia (?) or Psychoneurosis, Reactive State, on October 13, 1936.

He was readmitted a year later, October 15, 1937. At that time 
mother gave a statement that for past year, since he left hospital, he had 
been dull, staying in the house in a "deep study." He seems to listen; does 
not say anything'. At one time he beat up an old man in the house who, he 
said, called him names. Prior to admission he had attacked a woman for no 
apparent reason. Sleeps day and night. Often looks as if he is in a dream, 
Changed personality reactions for more than a year. For two weeks 
distinctly worse.

On admission he was sluggish, dull and lethargic, spoke in a quiet, 
low voice, showed empty affect, but was


intact in intellectual functions, memory, comprehension, orientation. He 
was transferred to the State Hospital on October 20, 1937, where he was 
evasive and dull. He showed no interest in the surroundings and did not 
mingle with the other patients. He expressed mild ideas of persecution and 
of electricity, was evasive and suspicious. He said some people called him 
bad names across the street. Believes that an attempt was made to harm 
him. "I sometimes have a funny feeling in my legs (electricity)." Their 
diagnostic impression included the possibility of Dementias-Praecox, 
Paranoid Type.

Gradually he acquired an interest and socialized with other patients. 
At all times he was neat and tidy in personal appearance and habits. He 
improved after five months and was ready for parole.

Now, so much for the psychopathic. We now come to the criminology.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I thought we would cover that in another 

We will now adjourn for lunch and come back at 1:30.

(Thereupon at 12:20 o’clock p.m., a recess was declared, the 
conference to resume discussions at 1:30 p.m.)



The conference was resumed at 1:30 o'clock p.m., pursuant to the 
taking of a recess at noon.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Gentlemen, the Conference will be in 
order. We may very well start with the general discussion on the 
pharmacological phases of the problem, and you can direct your questions 
to Dr. Munch, Dr. Loewe, or Dr. Bromberg.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Munch, I would like to ask you, in respect to the 
statement made by Dr. Walton that Cannabis has been used as a relief 
during labor in the Far East, are you familiar with that general picture?

DR. MUNCH: Yes. I think that the product that is actually used there is 
not Cannabis itself, but one of these peculiar mixtures of datura and 
opium and hashish and other things.

Some of the reports refer to the women smoking the cigarettes for a 
period in labor, but they are not in agreement with the information I have 
gotten from the Mexicans or out in Nevada, for example, where they have 
tried it and found it of no value.

On the isolated tissues the solutions of the drug have no effect, or 
have a very mild, quieting action.

If I remove the alcohol, they have little effect,


which means that the active principle is not sufficiently soluble in water 
to produce an action. So that I do not believe the action is very definitely 
therapeutic. It is more psychological, I believe, than it is physiological.

MR. WOLLNER: Who is Willis? One of them refers to the fact that 
Willis recommends its use in tedious labor where the patient is restless.

DR. MUNCH: Let me look at my copy of this book. 

MR. WOLLNER: It is on page 156.

DR. MUNCH: Did you say "Willis", Mr. Wollner?

MR. WOLLNER: Yes. On page 156, "EFFECTS DURING LABOR". It starts 
out, "Willis recommended".

DR. MUNCH: Willis has written a book on obstetrics and gynecology, 
but I cannot give you the reference to it right now.

MR. WOLLNER: All right.

DR. MUNCH: But he is one of the authors in that field. However, the 
work I was referring to more particularly was done by Watt (?) and 
Breyer-Brandwijh, which [sic] I believe is the co-author of the publication 
on poisonous plants in South Africa.
I have had correspondence with Watt along that line.


He refers to it in the last paragraph there after South Africa.

MR. WOLLNER: The reason I ask you that question is because of Dr. 
Bromberg's remarks, which I interpreted as being indicative of the 
production of a hypersensitivity. Am I wrong in that, Dr. Bromberg? 

DR. BROMBERG: A hypersensitivity?

MR. WOLLNER: On the part of an individual who uses Marihuana; that 
is, an increased agility.

DR. BROMBERG: The effects I refer to are on a motor activity. You 
refer to those, I presume? 


DR. BROMBERG: By which we mean the promptness to move either 
aimlessly or purposefully; that is, in acute intoxication the smoker is apt 
to dance around and move or wave his arms, or go through movements that 
are more rapid than he would move ordinarily; move his chair, knock it 
across the room, talk to people, show a general output of activity.

Many of those prisoners whom I have contacted state that they 
rather slow up or would rather be quiet during this period. There are two 
effects, in other words.

The hyperactivity is not universal. The great, ex-


treme activity results in assault, throwing people around. This is similar 
to what you see in certain types of alcohol intoxication, so-called 
pathological intoxication, where a few drinks set a man off into a 
rampage, breaking things, throwing things around, and fighting.
I think maybe men come in on that more than women because of the 
basic physiological pattern. They are more active anyhow. This refers to 
women, does it not? 

MR. WOLLNER: Yes, sir.

DR. BROMBERG: Certainly the effects are not uniform and cannot be 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Doctor, regarding these 31 admissions 
out of 100,000, I think it would be interesting to know just what period 
they cover. Are they of recent origin, or are they scattered pretty well 
throughout the years?
The reason that I bring that up is that the mental hospital at Burma 
showed, with the increased illicit traffic in Marihuana, the total 
admissions of insanity cases rose from .87 to 4.35%. I am wondering 
whether we can expect an increase in such cases, and also whether these 
31 cases are more or less of recent origin.


DR. BROMBERG: I can answer that by saying that the admissions 
already in the past four years of this type of Marihuana insanity is almost 
twice that which it was during the first four years of our observation, 
that is, three years of our observation period.
Of course, you can realize that many other cases go to private 
hospitals which pass off without regulatory medical treatment, and there 
are other factors so great that I would not put much reliance on these 
figures. I merely give them to you as true data so far as we have available.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We have been getting some reports from 
various sections of the country showing cases of alleged insanity due to 
Marihuana which have been brought to light.
For instance, there were interesting developments in a case in 
Findlay, Ohio, concerning a fifteen-year-old boy who showed signs of 
being insane.
When asked about his condition he made statements that he had been 
smoking cigarettes, and an investigation developed the information that 
there were two defendants, who were brothers, who were in charge of a 
playground, and they had been selling drugs that is, Marihuana cigarettes, 
to boys around there; and we found about sixteen pounds concealed above a 
garage owned by them. These fellows had


stopped selling the drug, because they noticed signs of the boys acting 
queer, and they became frightened. They were particularly alarmed 
because of what they thought was an unusual appetite for the drug.
We have a questionnaire whereby we ask Marihuana users involved in 
our cases, all sorts of questions. As a matter of fact, I would like now to 
revise that questionnaire, after what I have heard here.
One-fourth of those users when asked what effect the drug has on 
them, say, "It gives me a good appetite." "The first cigarette makes me 
feel hungry." They become hungry after they smoke, have a heavy and 
exceptionally good appetite. That is their answer without prompting. Yet 
that question does not appear in the questionnaire.
We ask them --- of course, we have to take their word for what they 
say --- whether they notice any permanent physical or mental effects, and 
they make statements which confirm the opinions of Dr. Munch and Dr. 
Bromberg. The answers are:
"I believe it has affected my nerves."
"I can not keep my mind on one thing long enough to think clearly."
"Loss of memory"; "Very bad on nerves"; "Produces twisted thoughts"; 
"Affects my brain"; "Dulls my head."


"Causes me to become deaf".
"I think I‘m more intelligent."
"Makes me tired".  "Hard to think"  "Headache and weakness".  
"Seemingly dulls senses"; and so on. 
Then the question is asked:  "What effects do you obtain from 
smoking Marihuana?" I think most of the answers confirm what has been 
said about the distortion of space, time, vision and hearing.
The auditory sensibilities are affected.
We are running into a great deal of cases which have to do with 
illicit traffic among musicians.
The next question is,  "Have you acquired tolerance?" Quite a number 
of the users have developed a craving for Marihuana.  Some of them stop 
after smoking few cigarettes, and there is no sign here that they increase 
the number that they smoke in a day.
Some of them vary between one cigarette and twenty cigarettes a 
day. Others have smoked it once; some have smoked it for ten years.

MR. WOLLNER:  I was wondering whether it would not be better, 
unless there are other specific questions, to postpone this portion of the 
Conference, which relates to bio-assay, which pertains to a chemist, 
because all of those questions are related, and go on with the rest of


the program.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: All right, unless there are questions.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Loewe, do you wish to say some thing?

DR. LOEWE: Among other things, I have tried Marihuana's action on a 
monkey, and I went to it with great hopes because I thought really that the 
psychic action would come out in this patient.
The observations were that the monkey reacts like the dog, and is 
one more of the few laboratory species which really show the ataxia 
The other observation was that the monkey required higher doses per 
kilogram body weight than the dog, which was somewhat unexpected, and 
that all of the lower doses to which I have climbed up through the ratio of 
higher doses did not show anything which indicated a psychic action.
The monkeys do not show this type of abnormality which occurs in 
Dr. Bromberg's material.
MR. WOLLNER: What is the relation in the dosage per kilogram of 
weight of dog and human being?

DR. LOEWE: The dog dosage per kilogram of weight and the human 
being per kilogram of weight, are fairly


close. The higher doses used in humans are capable of showing the 
slightest ataxia symptoms, which would point to the fact that the dosage 
is almost the same.

DR. MATCHETT: This ataxia is never apparent in humans at all?

DR. LOEWE: I have no experience; I never saw it. 

DR. BROMBERG: I never saw it either.

MR. WOLLNER: Have you any observations about ataxia symptoms 
comparable to those in dogs as to humans?

DR. BROMBERG: No; but I have never seen a large enough quantity, 
certainly not the tincture or the fluid extract.

Dr. Munch can perhaps answer that.

DR. MUNCH: I have given doses up to twice that re-cognized, but I have 
not noticed ataxia in students.

DR. LOEWE: There is one factor which, of course, is important, and it 
is a fact which we notice from tobacco smoking, and that is that the 
dosage in the form of the cigarette is probably high enough to produce 
great ataxic symptoms in humans by way of the administration of inhala-

DR. HERWICK: I should like to ask Dr. Bromberg, clinically, whether 
there is a direct physiological addiction to this; that is, are withdrawal 
symptoms produced or do


you think it is purely a psychic addiction?

DR. BROMBERG: My idea of habituation on this matter is different, and 
there happen to be several, and we should have the thing clarified.
Habituation must rest on three cases, two of them being habit 
The first are the symptoms appearing of withdrawal of the habit 
forming drug.
The second is that the patient develops tolerance. 
The third is that because he needs more drug he gets the pleasure of 
addiction, and all medicine agrees that there must be withdrawal.
A morphine addict becomes intolerant of withdrawal. He has 
abdominal pains and various symptoms. When morphine is given he feels 
better. And that is the basis of a well known treatment.
Secondly, there are the people who take increasing doses to feel 
well. Those two are well acknowledged criteria.
In the New York County jail, the physician in charge thinks he sees 
withdrawal symptoms, but the offenders are not allowed to discuss the 
offense with anyone except counsel. They say they did smoke it, or they 
did not. You do not know whether the symptoms are tied up with the



So, I dare say that there are no clear withdrawal symptoms. The 
thing is not settled. Patients come in after being cut off without the drug.
The third is addiction of pleasure-loving, and in that category comes 
smoking and colorful music and things of that nature. You can say that one 
has to have pleasure after he becomes addicted to luxury, and that can be 
looked upon as a valid psychiatric observation.
So I would stop there and say that we can say that in the absence of 
other evidence, that it is essentially hedonistic addiction.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Loewe, you mentioned in your experiment on dogs 
that you had injected some of these extracts, but, nevertheless, in most of 
the experiments that had been previously done, I gather, the drug had been 
taken orally. Of course, we know the stuff is smoked.
Your introduction of injection as a method of administration raises 
the question in my mind as to whether we might, at some future date, 
anticipate the use of that on humans, in this way? Is there any possibility 
of this sort? Similar to that which obtains in heroin, for example?

DR. LOEWE: Only after the isolation in pure form


I would say, because, at the present time, by use. of the extracts it 
will not be an element in the whole picture to introduce it by intravenous 
injection. It has to be injected in alcohol solution, and a slight injection 
introduces a bad local infection, pain, and so on.

MR. WOLLNER: Why were you impelled to use it as an injection as a 
method of administration, rather than giving it to your dogs orally, Dr. 

DR. LOEWE: It goes faster. In view of the long period of latency, it is 
much more convenient to use it intravenously injected, because the peak 
of the curve is reached sooner.

MR. WOLLNER: Would you conclude from that that on dogs, for 
example, as a medium for standardization, that they are not as radically 
different when the stuff is in-jected as compared to when it is 
administered orally?

DR. LOEWE: Probably that is true, but only to an inconsiderable 
extent. In a slighter extent the variations have been reported by various 
examinators [sic] after oral administration.

MR. WOLLNER: Will you recommend it as the preferred procedure for 

DR. LOEWE: I am not sure that I should give the preference to the 
intravenous way. I have to collect more



DR. MATCHETT: Are the effects otherwise identical? 

DR. LOEWE: Identical.

MR. WOLLNER: The curve is more rapid; I mean you achieve the peak of 
the curve more rapidly. 

DR. LOEWE: Comparatively more rapidly. Beginning after only twenty 
minutes, and reaching the peak after half an hour or an hour.

MR. WOLLNER: Your experiments with mice were continued under the 
same circumstances?

DR. LOEWE: No. As to mice, they were injected orally only.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We can now go on to the sociological 
In 88 users there were 86 males and only 2 females. I do not know if 
that holds true generally. We might have got off the rails on the selection, 
but that is what those figures show.
There were 47 white, 20 colored, 15 Latin Americans. The age, of 
course, is much younger than among opium users. Most of the users were 
between 17 and 35. The greatest number was between 21 and 25.
I believe that was true of a survey made in New York City of the 


MR. SMITH: We had 100 arrests there between January 1st and 
October 1st that ran: 99 Negro, 60 white, and 1 yellow; and the nativity, 
(and this nativity includes New York City and up-state New York:) 5 
Mexican, 1 Chinese, 32 Puerto Rican, 2 Greek:, some from South America, 
Cuba, Panama, and other places with 130 native born.
Then, in addition, I have 12 other cases, which to me were more 
interesting, because those persons who were held for crimes other than 
possession, and they ran such as unlawful entry, 3 for grand larceny, in 
addition to their possession; 1 for grand larceny, who admits he is a user.
Of course, the other possessor cases probably were users, but they 
are charged with possession. One with felonious assault with a pistol and 
possession; One, exposure of person; one felonious assault, both users; and 
another, felonious assault with possession; and one a wayward minor who 
admits, in addition to using Marihuana, that he is using heroin; one with 
assault and robbery, and one who was a policy peddler. They were held on 
other charges, rather than on mere possession charges.

MR. WOLLNER: What is the distribution in sexes, there, Mr. Smith? 

MR. SMITH: I have not the age nor sex distribution on those.


In at least four cases up-state we can show a definite connection 
with prostitution. In one we had a good report, not proven, but a good 
report that the Negro who was in possession was also running a school, 
teaching youngsters how to smoke Marihuana. Actually, we are not certain 
about the facts as to that, but that is the report that has been current 
with that individual. 

	COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Do you have anything on occupations 
of the users? 
MR. SMITH: We have four as musicians, two as farmers, and those 
two farmers were actually growing Marihuana on their farms. 
Many of them state "unemployed". But where most of those that 
report unemployed are laborers, they usually are associated with 
prostitution, policy, and some of the allied types of minor grade crimes.
 Prostitution, to me, seemed the most evident connection.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: In our 88, the occupation runs anywhere 
from bartender to unemployed. There are probably 50 different 
occupations, musicians are second to laborers,-of the 88.

The rest were distributed throughout the various



MR. SMITH: I can give you a breakdown on that section. I have it here 
in another portion of my data.
There were 5 women arrested as sellers, and 8 women arrested for 
possession, and 147 males arrested for possession, and 7 for selling.

MR. WOLLNER: About 10 per cent. 

MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: In our geographical distribution, we show 
the larger number of these around New York; a few in the New England 
areas; a few in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, several in the Middle 
Atlantic States, about 5 in the South, Kentucky and Tennessee, four; 
Michigan-Ohio, 13, Michigan-Ohio is second to New York.
And then they string out through the rest of the States, with 
California probably third.

MR. SMITH: In States with equal population ratios, as to the 
metropolitan district, as against up-state New York, our arrests for 
Marihuana violations in the State, excluding New York City, are about 10 
per cent; 15 cases, actually, against 160.
They probably will vary, though, as to the development of 
prosecution and apprehension, as in the various up-state cities they are 
just beginning to realize in the


last year that Marihuana is a problem, and the figures for 1938 will be 
higher than 1937. I expect 1939 will again be higher in up-state New York, 
so that that ratio of about 10 percent should rise.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Dr. Bromberg, you were about to start on 
the sociological phases. Will you give us the benefit of your views on 

DR. BROMBERG: The material that I have collected comes from the 
Court of General Sessions. This is the criminal court of New York City.
Our material is limited to New York County, although it must be 
remembered that the courts clientele comes from many sections of the 
We must also note that there are many racial types in our material. 
This is important, because the British investigators have noted in India 
that Cannabis does not bring out the motor excitement or hysterical 
symptoms among Anglo-Saxon users that occurs among natives. There are 
several other difficulties in selecting reliable material, one being the 
dependence on statements from prisoners without opportunity for 
objective tests or other corroborative checks, as in the case of other 
drugs, e.g., heroin or morphine.
During the routine interviews of some 17,000 offend-


ers during six and a half years, we have come across several hundred who 
have had direct experience with Cannabis. Their testimony checks with 
experimental results and clinical experiences in regard to 
symptomatology of intoxication, the absence of true addiction, and the 
negative connection with major crime. Especially is this noteworthy 
among sexual offenders, and in cases of assault or murder.
The extravagant claims of defense attorneys and the press, that 
crime is caused by Marihuana addiction, demand careful scrutiny.
The cases analyzed in this study cover a period of more than six 
years, from 1932 to 1938. Out of over 16,000 prisoners in this six-year 
period, 200 offenders were convicted of drug charges or found to be users 
of drugs, although convicted of other charges, in the Court of General 
Cases of possession for sale are handled in the Court of General 
Sessions which has jurisdiction over felonies. There is no distinction 
made in the indictment in the Court of General Sessions as to the nature 
of the drug sold.

Of this group of 200 drug offenders, 67 were indicated to be users of 
Marihuana in any degree and for any duration of time whether convicted of 
the crime of selling Marihuana or another crime.


The remaining 133 offenders were morphine or heroin users.
It is important to note that the only measure of Marihuana usage is 
the statement of the offender. Since statements of use are conceived by 
them to be prejudicial to their interests in court, we meet evasion and 
denial fairly consistently.
Our most reliable source of information is from those not arrested 
for traffic in drugs and questioned in the routine course of psychiatric 
Now, this leaves out thousands of smokers who were never arrested, 
people who were never arrested, and people that we deal with who were 
arrested for major crimes, including the one of selling drugs. Those people 
were all questioned about Marihuana.
Those who were arrested for selling drugs, specifically Marihuana, 
were questioned as to the use of it. Some of those admitted using it, and 
some did not.
All the criminological material that we have has to be taken with a 
very large dose of salt, and they are either convicted by the time we see 
them, or about to be, and are still frightened, and want to keep their fair 
records clean.
The only useful record which we have in which we can


throw out and include material as it sounds reasonable to us, and it is 
checked, so far as the use of the sociological aspects of it, and the effect 
of it, and so forth, so that in the General Sessions of Criminal Court the 
87 cases of Marihuana users consisted of 21 whites (native born and 
European extraction), 23 Negroes, 20 Puerto Ricans (some of whom are 
considered to be racial mixtures), 2 Mexicans, and one Negro and Indian 
Of the 67 studied, 46 were convicted of possession and sale of 
drugs, and 21 other charges. Among the 21 cases convicted of crimes other 
than the possession of and sale of drugs, were eight charges of burglary, 
five of grand larceny, three of robbery, two of assault, one each of petit 
larceny, forgery, and first degree murder, and none of sexual offenses. 
Burglary, grand larceny, and robbery, then, account for 16 of the 21 cases. 
There were but two sex cases of any description in the history of the 
Marihuana cases, in both of which sodomy occurred as previous offenses. 
In three cases, the individuals were what might be called constant users 
of Marihuana. One of these had commenced to use the Marihuana three 
years previous to the current conviction; another, with a sixteen year 
record, indicated Marihuana, had been used for fifteen years; the third 
referred to his use of Marihuana as


"several years” duration. None of the offenders reported any lasting 
effects from Marihuana. Interrogations as to the habit-forming nature of 
Marihuana were all answered in the negative by the prisoners.
So that in the General Sessions of Criminal Court the 67 people who 
were offenders were involved in selling Marihuana or gave some history of 
using it. Most of those people had previous charges, not including drugs, as 
to being criminals of other types. The largest proportion were not drug 
The next largest number had no previous connection with the 67. 
Fifty had never been arrested for taking any drugs. This was their first 
contact with the court. These were all special cases in the Special 
Sessions Court, which deals with misdemeanors and other cases.
Here, there were 202 cases. Thirteen were there on the first charge 
of any kind, that being a Marihuana charge. Those things do not mean very 
much to me, as they simply give a certain picture, a picture of people 
being picked up and brought in for using Marihuana, and there is not a very 
heavy weighted criminal record behind them. Drug users are not Marihuana 
users in the main.
In the Court of Special Sessions in the same picture, in the same 
six-year period, of approximately 75,000 in-


dictments for all crimes, there were 6,000 convictions for possession and 
use of drugs. Since neither the law, the district attorney, nor the police 
department make any distinction between the several kinds of narcotics, 
their arraignments or indictments, in Special Sessions as well as General 
Sessions, there were no figures from which to estimate the number of 
Marihuana users as distinguished from the number of users of other drugs. 
We therefore adopted a system of sampling the 6,000 cases in order to 
arrive at an approximate estimation of the total number of Marihuana users 
who came into conflict with the law. In this sampling, we examined the 
records of l,500 cases, or 25 per cent of the total of 6,000. Of these, 135 
were Marihuana charges. From this, it was estimated that about 540 cases, 
or 9 per cent of all drug cases coming to Special Sessions over a period of 
six years, were users of Marihuana. 
Analyzing this sample of 135 cases, it was found that 93 had no 
previous record; 8 had a previous drug charge or charges, only; 5 had 
previous charges, including drugs; and 29 had records not including drug 
charges. Among those with longer records, that is, from four to seven 
previous arrests, none showed progression in crime from drugs to other 


	In considering all the Marihuana cases in both General Sessions 
and Special Sessions Courts, a total of 202 convictions, it is an impressive 
fact that only 30 offenders had been arrested before for drug charges. This 
does not argue very strongly for Marihuana as a  drug that initiates criminal 
Where there is a series of crimes committed by one individual, our 
records show that he passes from other forms of crime to the use of drugs. 
Thus, in only three cases out of our series of 67, in which an arrest 
associated with Marihuana was recorded, did the criminal career start with 
the use of Marihuana, and in 7 cases out of 67 criminal activity started 
with other drugs. Ninety per cent of the group is accounted for by those who 
(1) have no criminal record except as drug users, and (2) have a previous 
record from which they turned to drugs This leaves a small minority of 
offenders whose criminal careers started with drugs and went on to other 
crimes like larceny, assault, and so on. As measured by the succession of 
arrests and convictions in the General Sessions cases (our only method of 
estimation), it can be said that drugs generally do not initiate criminal 
careers. Similarly, in Special Sessions, only 8 had previous charges of 
drugs, and 3.7 per cent has previous charges of drugs and other


petty crimes. In the vast majority of cases in this group of 135, then, 
earlier usage did not apparently predispose these offenders to crime, even 
that of drug usage. Whether the first offender Marihuana cases go on to 
major crime can only be ascertained by referring to the findings of the 
General Sessions Courts. The expectancy of major crimes following the use 
of Cannabis, then, is small, according to our experiences
The problem of habituation of Cannabis is one of grave importance 
According to the statements of confirmed heroin or morphine addicts, 
Marihuana is not a habit-forming drug. Naturally, where it is used in 
conjunction with heroin, morphine or cocaine another problem presents 
Occasionally, an astute drug peddler will adulterate Marihuana 
cigarettes with morphine or heroin in order to retain his clientele. Care 
must be exercised in evaluating the question of Marihuana habituation, so 
that we are not dealing with this type of adulterated Cannabis.

The medical diagnosis of habituation depends on the accepted criteria 
of acquired tolerance and after-effect upon withdrawal of the drug. 
Regarding the subject of tolerance, users of Marihuana examined in the 
clinic universally state that an increase in dosage is not neces-


sary to achieve the desired effect as time goes on.
The increase in cigarette consumption, sometimes noted, is simply 
related to how often and how long the smoker wants to experience these 
As to the question of withdrawal symptoms, cases have never, to the 
knowledge of the writer, been observed systematically in an environment 
where control of the drug can be exercised. Although of secondary value in 
deciding the problem of habituation, it should be noticed that experience 
with experimental subjects indicates that after usage of the drug and its 
cessation no withdrawal symptoms are reported.

It has not been possible to observe satisfactorily Marihuana users 
upon their entrance into custody to establish their behavior after cessation 
of usage. For one thing, the law does not allow questioning of a defendant 
prior to trial regarding his charge. The history of the offense cannot be 
discussed except with counsel, but an offender can be questioned in the 
course of medical treatment. The fact that Marihuana cases do not request 
medical treatment upon their incarceration argues for the absence of 
withdrawal symptoms.
As is well known, morphine, opium, etc., users become violently ill 
upon being taken in custody, away from the


source of their drug, and are vociferous in their demands for treatment.
Nevertheless, the wide discrepancies between the reports of other 
jurisdictions and ours in the question of addiction to Cannabis demands a 
serious attempt to establish the facts in the case.
Up to March 26, 1938, Cannabis was classed as a habit-forming drug 
in Section 1751 of the Penal Code, based on Public Health Law, Article 22, 
Uniform Narcotic Drug Act. Due to difficulty in this Court in proving it to 
be a habit-forming drug (case of People vs. Williams), the Law Revision 
Commission, appointed by the New York State Legislature, was requested 
to amend the Penal Code to read "narcotic" rather than "habit-forming" 
From a legal point of view, therefore, the problem of whether it is 
habit-forming or not is not vital in this and many other States, since its 
use as a narcotic by un-authorized persons is an offense.
The writer believes it highly desirable and important that a 
Commission be appointed to examine the matter scientifically as was 
done in the case of narcosan and other reputed drug cures in 1921 at the 
Bellevue Psychopathic Hospital under Commissioner Patterson of the 
Department of Correction.


The most that one can say on the basis of ascertainable facts is that 
prolonged Marihuana usage constitutes a "sensual" addiction, in that the 
user wishes to experience again and again the ecstatic sensations and 
feelings which the drug produces. 
Unlike morphine addiction, which is biochemically as well as 
psychologically determined, prolonged Marihuana usage is essentially in the 
services of the hedonistic elements of the personality. 
Those are the main conclusions I have developed from that.
Then we took the cases of the Marihuana users and tried to break 
those down. It indicates that no murderers were found among this group of 
67, not one murder committed in these six or seven years by a Marihuana 
There were no sex cases among these 67. We have, however, seven 
hundred odd sex cases, from first degree rape down to exhibitionism, and in 
the course of the six or seven years not one of them was a Marihuana user, 
according to history or physical examination.
At the time of our examination, two of them had sex cases in their 
history some years before. One was sodomy, and the other some other type 
of offense.
Of all of these people, only three called themselves


constant users.  One for three years and twelve months, and the others 
nine months.
There is one other point which I would like to mention and that is 
the case of a man named Joseph Ogden who is reported among others in Mr. 
Merrill's paper as having been an addict.
I saw him and spent some time with him. He was a psychopathic 
individual. I think he had been in the State hospital at Lexington, and had 
had several other arrests. But nothing in his history indicated Marihuana.  
In other words, the newspaper accounts must be discounted. The fact of 
the matter was that he had not even been a drug addict, but was a 
homosexualist. The offender was murdered by him and shoved into a trunk.  
I do not know whether he disarticulated his arms or not, but he sent the 
trunk to the express station, and they saw blood oozing out of it, and 
picked him up.
He told the story rather frankly. It was a horrible crime. I think 
Marihuana was innocent of that. I am sure of that, because I have been able 
to check that very carefully.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER:  We have observed two cases of sex 
crimes where we have been able to prove the connection with Marihuana.


A boy named Perez, in Baltimore raped a ten-year-old girl, and of 
course he blamed it on Marihuana.
It so happened that, just a year before that, Perez had been picked up 
by the Baltimore police for the sale of 2,500 grains of Cannabis, and got 
three months in jail. This sex offense happened the following year.
And there is another case down in Corpus Christi that we have been 
able to establish, where an oil worker with a good reputation, obtained and 
smoked a cigarette, after which he raped his young daughter.
Those are two cases that I know of in which we have proof.
In the case of Perez, we do not know what else might have been wrong 
with him, but he was definitely a user and a seller of Marihuana.
I believe that Mr. Smith has had a great deal of experience up through 
New York State.

MR. SMITH: We have had one case in the last two or three months, 
which has been of great interest to the Motor Vehicle Department. A 
youngster in Mount Kisco, close to New York City, was involved in an 
automobile accident in that village by hitting three parked cars during the 
evening. When he was apprehended by the police, he literally tore the 
officer's blouse from his shoulder,


and he had great difficulty in subduing him. 
During the evening, they first thought it was alcohol, but later the 
youngster admitted having used a "reefer". From the information we 
obtained from him, we apprehended an individual who was growing it, and I 
think we picked up about six pounds. 
We had another case farther up-state, not as well established, but 
apparently pretty well shown, of the inability of the automobile driver to 
perceive distance and speed. 
So that factor will be of considerable interest to those interested in 
traffic control. 
Because of that recent case in White Plains, we have had some inquiry 
from the State Motor Vehicle Department, and they arc considering, I 
believe, the advisability of revoking the licenses of operators who can be 
shown to be users of Marihuana, in the same fashion that we are now able 
to do after showing evidence of narcotism. 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Is that in your State law now?

MR. SMITH: No, sir, it is not in our State law now.
In fact, I do not know if it was decided that we could get away with 
it, but through the Motor Vehicle Department we could, as one of the 
requirements in the matter of


ability on the questionnaire in New York up-state you have to state whether 
or not you use narcotic drugs.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Marihuana users, when arrested, want to 
Their motor impulses seem to be working It takes, sometimes, four or 
five officers to subdue a man, and they sometimes wreck the living 
quarters in doing so.
We do not have anything like that in arresting opium users.
The agents proceed very cautiously when arresting a Marihuana user.

MR. SMITH: It conflicts with alcohol which seem to be the worst cases 
yet, and we have had a few cases who used both. Those are perhaps the few 
that you have run across. Then, of course, we have those who have just been 
on the reefer alone.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER, I have noticed a tendency towards more 
gunplay among Marihuana users than among opium users.

MR. SMITH: Than among opium users?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Yes. And there has been some gun play.
The first case that we arrested under the Marihuana Act, (I happened 
to have been present in the Denver court


when they brought this fellow up before the judge.) had been a user for a 
number of years. He was only 23 years old, but many of his arrests were for 
I have noticed that many of these violators have a record of assault.
In Wilmington, Delaware, there was the case of John Rhodes, who 
attacked an officer with a knife and was shot and killed resisting arrest.

MR. SMITH: I have four out of twelve in one city where the charges, in 
addition to possession, are assault.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: In many cases, particularly around Ohio, 
the officers are called in cases of disturbance and they find a Marihuana 
user with some stuff on him.

DR. MUNCH: A chap I talked to told me that the use of gin came in very 
particularly with the use of a reefer. Is that true with opium? Do Marihuana 
users tend to take gin along with smoking of the reefer?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I do not know about that. We have not run 
into that.

DR. MUNCH: The point I am asking could be that the alcohol there would 
tend to increase the solubility of any material that has been swallowed, 
and, therefore, they would get greater effect under such conditions than if 
they. had not taken the alcohol.


DR. MATCHETT One of the Internal Revenue officials, formerly in 
Texas, has told us that down there persons use alcohol and Marihuana 
together, and where they were very wild it took four or five officers to 
bring a man in. He attributed that to the combined effect rather than the 
effect of either one.

MR. SMITH: Still, there is a good deal of fancy on the part of some 
officers, whose experience with Marihuana is new.
I have had some experience with one or two sheriffs. I know of one 
who recently employed the services of two other sheriffs and four deputy 
sheriffs to secure the arrest of a farmer on a farm where the material was 
Any youngster, 18 or 19 years old, could have gone there and done it 
alone. This was because of the first experience of those officers with it. I 
think the men were anxious to capitalize on the possible publicity which 
might attend the arrest. So that sometimes you run up against that problem, 
where they report that it is necessary for a number of them to subdue an 
individual. That may be an effort to make it appear a more serious type of 
So that I think we have to put our tongues in our


cheeks as to this, also.

DR. MATCHETT: This story came from Deputy Commissioner Berkshire, 
of the Alcohol Tax Unit.

MR. SMITH: We did have in White Plains this additional situation: The 
fact appeared there that with children of high school age with good 
financial and social background, that two of those individuals, who were in 
difficulties there, stated that the smoking of reefers had become a part of 
the initiation in certain clubs or school fraternities.

That probably is a little bit unusual, as an incident, but that has been 
definitely reported in that vicinity. 

DR. WRIGHT: Where was that?

MR. SMITH: That was in White Plains, New York.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Did you not arrest a youngster sixteen 
years old for selling?

Mr.. SMITH: Yes, sir. There were two youngsters of excellent 
background, and fine social connections. That was probably a larger factor, 
as compared to anything else, I think, and that was that they probably had 
too much financial and social backing. That may be more true in that 
particular county than in other counties in that State.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: You mentioned a case of a


young man using Marihuana and heroin.

MR. WITH: Yes, sir. That was in New York City. 
COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: What had he used first, do you know?

MR. SMITH: I do not know. That, I extracted from the Police 
Department records last Tuesday, but I did .not have time to go back and get 
the individual cards, and I doubt very much whether the information which 
appears in the police cards will show that.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We have not run into many peddlers of 
heroin who also handle Marihuana, and we have not run into many users of 
Marihuana who are also heroin users. However, as Dr. Bouquet points out, in 
Tunis there is a tendency to switch from Marihuana to heroin.
Have you run into any cases like that, Doctor? 

DR. BROMBERG: I have seen many drug addicts, who have, once or 
twice, they say, tried Marihuana, and have dropped it, because it was not 
strong enough. Most true addicts start with heroin or opium.

MR. SMITH: Do you not think that that might be more the association 
with individuals than the association with the drug?

DR. BROMBERG: Perhaps. And there is one other fact, and that is that 
alcohol and Marihuana have a more potent


effect than alcohol alone.
I had a case where a man started smoking Marihuana. The seller 
introduced heroin, he noticed the effect, and he became a user, but, of 
course, that was not through any choice.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: As to this question of using alcohol with 
Marihuana, I recall a case in Indiana where a man was arrested who had an 
infusion of the drug in alcohol. How do they do that? Drink it and smoke a 

DR. BROMBERG: No. I think it is a sociological matter. He uses the gin 
with it, or otherwise, and it depends on the amount of money and the 
locality, and they smoke, and it represents having some fun, the effect 
which they look for.

MR. WOLLNER: I wonder how much can be deduced from the present 
figures in the matter of crime, in view of the fact that these figures 
represent a static picture whereas the entire Marihuana picture, so far as I 
know, is on an up-curve.
Have you noticed any tendencies that are not static over a period of 
years Dr. Bromberg?

DR. BROMBERG: That is a very good question, because the alcohol thing 
depends on the relationship between the two.


But I have been in contact with the court for about five years, and the 
number of Marihuana peddlers has not increased, but the number of 
Marihuana users we do not know about.

MR. WOLLNER: In what order, would you say?

DR. BROMBERG: It is impossible to say. These are only approximations, 
I admit. It all depends on the police activities.
They make a drive, and the figures go up. They forget about it, and 
there are no figures.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Are there any questions as to this phase of 
the problem?
I must say that we are still sort of groping as to a lot of those 

DR. MUNCH: May I intrude there, just as a matter of difference in mind, 
as to any sort of figure representing the total number of users of 
Marihuana? I mean, has anybody said anything as to the number of heroine 
users being the same as the opium addicts, or less or more, or as to the 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: It is impossible to say. The eradication of 
16,000 acres of Marihuana during the past year means nothing as to 
numbers of users. We are sure it was never meant for the illicit traffic. 


15,000 of the 16,000 acres was wild growth.

DR. BROMBERG: You mean additional acreage than that which had 
humans on it?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We have arrested over 1,000. The Bureau of 
Prisons is a little concerned about that, because it is causing a definite 
increase in their jails.
Puerto Rico is starting to send a lot of these sellers and users to jail, 
which they did not do before. There has been a tremendous up-grade in 
I do not recall just what the arrests have been by states throughout 
the country. These are Federal arrests. State arrests are probably over that 
I should say that the 16,000 acres represent only a drop in the bucket, 
because I know in one State there are 300,000 acres of the wild growth. We 
have a job here on eradication that is just stupendous.
Fortunately, a lot of this acreage that is discovered we hear about 
through people who do not tell anybody else about it.
The illicit trafficker is looking for growth. I cannot understand why 
the New York trafficker had to go out to Minnesota and strip some of those 
hemp fields.

MR. SMITH: We had two instances where the material was either 
reported to be, or actually was, of western


growth, and they were getting a higher price than was paid apparently for 
New York grown. Whether that was bona fide, as to the material from New 
York State, or as to the material from Minnesota, I do not know, or whether 
it was a question of price boosting as to the New York sales prices, we still 
do not know.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I think within a couple of blocks from 
where Dr. Munch lives you can walk into as much [as] fifty acres that has 
not been destroyed.

DR. MUNCH: They went over about 300 acres of that this year and ran 
out of C.C.C. men and then stopped.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: That is a tremendous problem with us. We 
have used many of the agencies of the Government, the W.P.A. has helped, 
and other agencies. We have discouraged all of these well-meaning people 
throughout the country who want to use Boy Scouts in the removal of' 

DR. MUNCH: We have had considerable cooperation through Admiral 
Foote, and the Automobile Vehicle Department of our State.

DR. WRIGHT: May I ask Dr. Bromberg whether or not his contacts with 
these patients show whether or not there is any indication of whether 
these cigarettes used were tobacco which had been adulterated with 


DR. BROMBERG: My source of information is the Police Department, and 
the cigarettes that they have gathered up are filled definitely with 
Marihuana, and no other compound.

MR. SMITH: I would like to ask Dr. Bromberg, or anybody else who has 
had experience as to the likelihood of development of perversion.
Has anybody had any experience on that?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Dr. Kolb, have you run into anything on 

DR. KOLB: No, sir. 

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: How many of these users have you in 

DR. KOLB: There are about one hundred patients who have used it 
occasionally, but they are mostly opium and heroin users. 
About twenty-five have used nothing but Marihuana alone. 
But, just as Dr. Bromberg has stated they use it occasionally, just to 
see if it is another drug that they need.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Are these Marihuana users, as such, a 
younger group than your opium smokers?

DR. KOLB: Most of the time.


For instance, we had a man from Puerto Rico, about fifty years old, 
who had been a judge, and who said it was a political plot that he should 
get four years. I do not know how politics came into it.
He said, "Well, they are trying to get rid of me."
He never had any criminal record. That seemed to be a rather strong 
sentence for users.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We have noticed the tendency in Puerto 
Rico, even with heroin users, to give them five years for use only.

DR. KOLB: Yes, they give them a very severe sentence.
The district attorney wrote me and wanted to take it up with judge 
Cooper. I told him that, from the stand-point of rehabilitation, it was a 
rather harmful matter to put a man in prison for four years. He is liable to 
learn a lot of things in prison and then go out and hate society and use them 
against society.
It is my idea that users should get one year, and especially the fellow 
who does not have a criminal record.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: I do not think the courts here are being too 

DR. KOLB' No, they are not.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: They are giving the seller


a great deal more than the user, on the average. 

DR. KOLB: Of course.

MR. WOLLNER: What does your investigation represent as to these 
twenty-five users of Marihuana alone, as compared to those who use other 
drugs other than Marihuana?

DR. KOLB: Of course, we get them after they have stopped using the 
drug, and after they have escaped the acute effects of the drugs, There is 
only one psychiatric case, which we are not quite sure of, that has been due 
to using the Marihuana drug.

MR. WOLLNER: I am going to ask an awfully unfair question.
What percentage of these people would have been in jail if they had 
not smoked Marihuana? 

DR. KOLB: Well, very few of them.

MR. WOLLNER: They would hot have been in jail?

DR. KOLB: That applies to a great many users of drugs.
A great many of them have done other things, particularly thievery, or 
other slippery types of work. 

MR. WOLLNER: Are they slightly impaired?

DR. KOLB: They are slightly impaired, partly due to the psychiatric 
condition, and to the distress of needing the drug.


There are very few violent types of crime with the opium addict.
Our experience with the Marihuana addicts is not enough to give an 
answer. I rather think that with the alcoholic-Marihuana user, that he 
would become a type of drug addict that would cause many crimes.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER:  There was a case in Canada, Mr. Lancaster, 
there a Marihuana user had withdrawal symptoms similar to those of an 
opium user.

MR. LANCASTER: Yes, sir. That was the boy who was picked up and had 
used Marihuana for a long time. He was out of work, had no continual 
He tried to smoke Marihuana, rather liked it, and after several months 
of usage, he was jailed, and kept there for about a week.
His case was remanded, and he reported feeling tingling pains and 
needles in the hands and feet, and he was greatly upset and pleaded for a 
narcotic again. He was suffering with an imparity of that order. I do not 
think it was tried to see whether giving him Marihuana should relieve that 
case or not.
The general impression is that there is no great suffering, and if they 
are relieved from it after the first five days, naturally they want it again, 
but they do


not break down if they do not get it.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Bromberg, have you come across any occasion of 
drinking Marihuana in the form of tea extract, or something of that sort? 


MR. SMITH: Is there any evidence of it being used in Canada? On any 
convictions, have you had any evidence of it ?

MR. LANCASTER: Not there, no. No, sir, so far there have been no 
samples submitted to us as yet.

But I understand they do mix them, mix it with sweets, in northern 

MR. SMITH: There have been one or two reports that they do mix it in 

MR. WOLLNER: For your ears, I can tell you, Mr. Smith, that all of the 
chemists are sitting on the edge of their seats, worrying about that 

MR. SMITH: And there is a question as to the toxic effects which could 
be present.

MR. WOLLNER: And there may not be any way in which we can examine 
it. We are hoping that they do not guess that gasoline will extract it.

DR. MATCHETT: Is it true that that is a common form


in the Far East?

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: No, not in The Far East, but in the Near 

DR. MATCHETT: In the Near East, yes.
COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: We seem to have covered the  sociological 
phases, so far as we are able to and I am going to turn the choir over, at 
this point, to Dr. Wollner, who will proceed with the chemical phases. 
This is where most of the spade work has got to be done, anyway.


MR. WOLLNER: The problem is not yet resolved. We are not yet in a 
position to know exactly what it is we are looking for, and, within four 
walls, I am perfectly frank to admit that al]. the chemists I have met, who 
are interested in this field, are at a complete loss when asked to prophesy 
the character of the narcotic principle, which we are going to eventually 
The situation is as bad in the chemical literature as it is in all of the 
other phrases.
I should certainly be within the reasonable bounds of correctness 
when I say that ninety percent of the stuff that has been written on the 
chemical end of Can-


nabis is absolutely wrong, and, of the other ten percent, at least two-thirds 
of it is of no consequence.
That ninety per cent has had, however, to be dealt with, and chemists 
all over the world have been interested in Cannabis, and in the past few 
years have spent a goodly portion of their time upsetting a lot of this 
shibboleth and tradition which has been set up, probably a thousand years, 
so as to clear the ground and to be able to proceed in a more orderly 

In this work the evidence, by force of circumstance, compels us to 
turn to the pharmacologist for guidance.

As Dr. Loewe ably expressed before, since we have no test in the 
chemical laboratories for indicating the presence or absence of the 
narcotic principle, every bit of the exploratory work of consequence that 
has been engaged upon had to be paralleled with work in the field of bio-

The chemical problem is so obvious that it does not require much 

Chemists, enforcement administrative chemists, are interested in 
two things. First, and immediately, they want to know how to find and 
detect the presence of Cannabis sativa, or any of its products that are 
narcotic in character.

In other words, most enforcement officers will make


a seizure in some form, solid or liquid, and the question asked is, "Is this 
Marihuana?" And no satisfactory technique for answering such a question 
obtains today.
That does not say that in most of the cases that come before the 
chemists they are not in a definite position to make a definite statement, 
that before them the substance is definitely Cannabis sativa, but they can 
not do it as definitely as in the case of morphine, opium, and heroin.
The second question they would like answered is,
"What is the narcotic principle, or what are the narcotic principles 
That question is not one of enforcement so much as of general 
The Commissioner of Narcotics has the problem of deciding, at times, 
what regulations shall be invoked in respect to an industry or an 
agricultural phase of this problem.
The question arises, how long shall we have to wait before the resin 
is decomposed, during the rotting process, for example, and the only way I 
would know how to answer that question is to know how long that principle 
will exist during that rotting exhibition. Of course, we do not know. We can 
not answer that question.
The question arises, can recommendations be made to


exempt the use of certain portions of the plant and certain industrial 
directions, as far as governmental regulation is concerned, be given by 
virtue of the fact that they are harmless. No statement can he made on that 
So, it becomes important, from an administrative point of view, for 
administrative chemists, associated with the carrying out of the Marihuana 
Act, to have a more competent picture of the drug, as competent as obtains 
at the present time in respect to the poppy and its secretion, opium, and its 
products, morphine, heroin, codeine, and so on.
This drug, peculiarly enough, has withstood competent attack for an 
extensive period of time.
Before the laws were passed controlling the opium picture, chemists 
were able to supply a fairly excellent background, against which such 
legislation and regulations might have been and were in fact predicated.
But, in the case of Marihuana, there is no such background. It is just a 
fog; without question the psychiatrists and bioassayists and agricultural 
people know far more about Cannabis than do the chemists.
So far as knowing anything about the plant, today, is concerned, all 
they can tell you is that such and such


a product is not a narcotic, such and such a product is non-narcotic, and 
they are trying to shrink the residue further and further, but they have not 
touched it.
Of great assistance in clarifying the issue has been the work 
undertaken by Dr. Blatt, in reviewing the literature.
Dr. Blatt has prepared a paper consisting of a critical review of the 
literature on narcotics, published in the journal of the Washington Academy 
of Sciences on the 15th of November. I have a number of copies of the paper 
here, and also a chart setting forth the general character of the critique, so 
that a person who is a technical man can get a picture of the thing.
I am going to ask that only these people who have a working 
knowledge of chemical symbology receive them, and we will try to get 
enough copies to mail them out to you later.
I am going to ask Dr. Blatt if he will be so kind as to offer a picture of 
his survey as to the chemical constituents of Cannabis Sativa.


DR. BLATT: That will not take very long, because as Mr. Wollner has 
said, we are only dealing with two-


thirds of ten percent of the material. 
Very briefly, the story is, you can take Cannabis and extract it with 
one of several solvents, or combinations of solvents and obtain a 
physiologically active extract. The only successful technique that has been 
applied to that so far has been a distillation process, and through the 
distillation you can get out of it three substances, which I will simply 
name and pass on. 
One of them is a paraffin hydrocarbon known as nonacosane, that is, 
physiologically, inactive. 
If you do a distillation, you get a definite distillate, and all chemists 
who have worked with Cannabis know it as red oil. Unfortunately, it also 
was known as Cannabinol, and that has been the cause of much trouble. 
	This red oil looks a good bit like a lubricating oil of a rather poor 
quality, a semi-solid material at room temperature. 
That material we will simply call narcotic-active by a physiological 
test. The real nasty principle about the situation is that that material 
behaves as if it were a chemical substance, and there have been three 
different formulas proposed for it. 
One of the formulas has Cot so far as two individuals having agreed 
upon it. Then the hitch comes. In about


forty years, three English workers succeeded in preparing and isolating one 
pure chemical substance from this red oil.
They called that Cannabinol, and the one individual substance derived 
from it is also called Cannabinol. For thirty years, nobody following them 
was ever able to get this pure Cannabinol.
So, we went ahead and worked with Cannabinol, and assumed that we 
were working with the pure substance
Then, roughly about eight years ago, the pure chemical individual, pure 
Cannabinol, again was secured for the second time, and apparently it can be 
Pure Cannabinol is the fourth chemical substance to be gotten out of 
Cannabis, and it is the fourth one to be lacking in narcotic activity. It is 
toxic, however, and it is quite possible that some of the .activity of Canna-
binol, some of this complex activity that has been referred to during the 
morning, is due to pure Cannabinol as a chemical individual.
The chemical structure of pure Cannabinol has been fairly well 
worked out. It is not definitely settled. We do not need to go into that
 There is one more thing that should be pointed out, and that is the 
fact that for thirty years perfectly com-


petent chemists have taken this red oil, distilled, and worked with it as if 
a pure chemical. It not only gives analytical values of resin, but they are 
even more complex. You can carry out the chemical reactions with this.
So, let us refer to red oil as the crude Cannabinol; and the chemical 
individual as pure Cannabinol. You can run chemical reactions. You can 
reduce an acetylate and the products you get out are still analyzable for the 
proper derivatives of crude Cannabinol. That is, where everybody has gone 
There is one ray of hope, and a pretty definite one, as to the confusion 
of a mixture which was taken to be a definite chemical substance, and that 
is why progress has been so slow, and that is the fact that we have no way 
quantitatively of following the definite reaction of the chemical principle..
The one ray of hope I mention is the fact that you can take red oil, 
crude Cannabinol, remove one-fourth, which is inactive as pure Cannabinol, 
and the residual three-fourths still retains chemical activity. There is 
where the work begins. That is as far as has been gotten chemically.
There is just one more point here. As far as I have been able to find, 
and I received corroboration at noon, there not only is no correlation, or no 
correlation has


been made, so far as I can find. out, between the various color reactions for 
Cannabis and the narcotic activity, and I was told at noon that, not only had 
there been none made, but it was because there definitely is none. So we 
can not fail to follow the activity as to this color test.
I may be getting off in deep water, but that is the apparent final 
analysis. There is one more thing, and that will finish it up.
I hope not many people will be misled by the principle that the active 
principle of Cannabis is Cannabinol. You will find it even there. The active 
fraction which you will find, which is more or less of a mixture, is called 
You can find a chemical substance which is not active. I think that 
covers it.

MR. WOLLNER: I think that adds oils to the fire. 

DR. MUNCH: Is there an active substance there? 

MR. WOLLNER: I will take your word for it, and Bromberg's on the basis 
of his research in New York
It leads us pretty much to where we started.
I think if all the research work done so far were dumped together by a 
group of chemists, or if they started out today on this investigation, that 
they would be exactly the same as they are now inside of six months;


	that is, all of the information which we have, which is very 
little, could be accumulated in six months. 
Recognizing that situation, the Treasury two years ago undertook to 
lay the basis for a competent attack on the problem. 
We did not know what that would consist of, but we knew sound, 
fundamental, reproducible information and data had to be obtained. 
The first thing we did was to contact the Department of Agriculture, 
and with their cooperation, there was planted a plot at Arlington Farms 
over here, last summer, and the summer before, where the plant was 
observed in its various stages of growth, and which furnished us all of the 
criteria the literature offered us in the past. 
As I mentioned earlier, about ninety percent of all of it was thrown 
out. The report of the first year's investigation was published in the journal 
of the American Pharmaceutical Association. I have a number of copies 
here, if there are any technical men who have not soon that report. 
An equivalent report is being prepared at the present time on the 
basis of this summer’s work.
We have obtained several tons of Marihuana. We have extracted or are 
extracting huge quantities of that mater-


ial, in an effort to provide a satisfactory amount on the basis of which a 
broad attack on the problem may be predicated.
Dr. Matchett is in charge of the Treasury's own immediate attack on 
the problem, and I believe he has some information which he can lay before 
you this afternoon. 
Is that correct, Dr. Matchett? 


DR. MATCHETT: The problem is clarified a little bit by recognizing 
that there are two distinct phases involved, the first of which must be 
pretty well finished before the second can begin. 
First of all, there is the separation of the active principle from other 
material, and second, the characterization of it. 
Before a competent separation can be undertaken, we must be in 
possession of suitable assay methods. 
We, of course, are interested in those manifestations of Marihuana 
that lead to the effects, which have led in turn, to the passage of the Act
We are not sure, I take it, whether the substance produces ataxia in 
the dog, or sleep in the mouse, or corneal(?) anesthesia in the rabbit is the 
same as the one in which we are interested.


Nevertheless, something must be adopted, and by common consent, a 
dog assay, with all its faults, has been the method of choice.
It seems obvious that these various principles, if more than one 
exists, will be each characterized on its own merits.
In considering this phase of it, also, it must not be forgotten that any 
one of the effects may be combinations, and any of the effects that we are 
able to measure may possibly be combined effects, of which the bad effect 
of the drug itself may be only one. 
With that so disposed of, it is possible to recognize that certain 
characteristics of the so-called resin are fairly well defined already, 
although I think we must recognize that the resin itself is variable, and to 
what extent, we are not yet able to say very definitely.
As Dr. Blatt said, there have been certain individuals isolated in pure 
form, of which the most important are Cannabinol and the hydrocarbon 
There is also present definitely in the resin a substance that responds 
to the alkaline Beam test.
There are still other substances among all those responsible for the 
psychological and physiological activity; of such there may be one or more.


And finally, there are those volatile oils, in which there is no 
tremendous interest other than to dispose of them before being able to 
isolate the drug.
Now, little or nothing is known of the nature of the active substance. 
All attacks on the problem have, thus far, broadly speaking, produced 
negative results. The thing, in any event, is not an alkaloid, because we are 
not able to extract it into acid solutions from solvents, nor does it contain 
any nitrogen. It is not an acid, since it does not extract into alkaline 
solution. And it has not been shown to contain any carbonyl groups because 
it does not form any derivatives with the common reagents for such.

There is evidence on the other hand that it forms esters and that it is 
an aromatic substance, the latter from the refractive index of the most 
active fraction. From that it would appear to be a phenolic compound. The 
substance is thermostable under rather rigorous conditions, but it is 
quickly destroyed in the presence of oxygen.
It is also quite likely that it is unsaturated since reduction by 
hydrogen is possible.
But all those, unfortunately, are properties of the active mixtures 
that Dr. Blatt referred to, rather than of any chemical individual. They are 
all of some assis-


tance though, in considering methods by which the problem may be 
Now, only distillation in a rather high vacuum has been of any 
assistance thus far in fractionating the mixture, known as Cannabis resin. 
The volatile oils are so separated with relative ease. The substance 
responsible for the acid Beam test, whatever it may be, is removed, the 
acid test no longer appearing in the distillate.
The hydrocarbon which does appear in the distillate can be removed by 
crystallization from alcohol or some other solvent, and pure Cannabinol can 
be removed as a crystalline acetate or paranitry benzoate.
As Dr. Blatt pointed out, this point is where the trail ends at present, 
with the exception of a brief note indicating that it is definitely possible 
to find physiological effects in the material remaining after Cannabinol has 
been removed.
It is at that point that we purpose ultimately to actually begin.
The former distillation has been carried out at pressures anywhere 
from atmospheric down to a reported pressure of about five-one 
thousandths of a millimeter.
From the character of the work in which this was reported it would 
appear that the reported pressures must


be taken with a grain of salt. No essential difference however has appeared 
in the products of fractionation. The material, as you may be aware, is an 
exceedingly difficult material to work with, a heavy tar-like oil, and it 
does not lend itself readily to distillation by any means.
We have considered that at this point it might be preferable to resort 
to molecular distillation in an effort to obtain a more competent 
separation. If this hope be realized, a number of avenues of attack are 
opened or re-opened. That is, among other things the action of solvents may 
be reinvestigated, and of particular interest will be the action of solvents 
at low temperatures.
Then there are possibilities of preferential adsorption, and also it 
may be possible to prepare crystalline derivatives. They fail to appear from 
treatment of the present mixtures.
Now, the molecular distillation outfit that we have chosen for this 
work is of the static type, rather than the cyclic still with which you are 
probably more familiar, because the higher boiling fractions of this 
material are so viscous that they probably would not cycle with in that 
still without special precautions to maintain a high temperature.


The original material has been distilled before passing it into the 
molecular still in a flash apparatus that operates under a good vacuum. This 
is necessary since the crude oil is particularly prone to spit in the 
molecular still and ruin the distillation.
More specifically, the process that we are following is extraction 
from the plant material with cold alcohol, alcohol being chosen as a solvent 
rather than petroleum ether, on account of fire hazard. This process is 
followed by a liquid extraction from the alcohol by pentane, which does 
away with a lot of water soluble material, and tarry material of a 
nondescript character.
We have not yet thoroughly satisfied ourselves that all of the active 
material is extracted by pentane, but we believe we have every reason to 
think it is.
Then the pentane, which incidentally, extracts quite a little alcohol, 
is removed, and the alcohol is also removed.
The material is then passed through the flash process that I referred 
to a moment ago, and the distillate from here is placed in the molecular 
still. That is the point which the investigation has reached at this parti-
cular moment.
Now, it is expected to divide the oil into about ten


fractions in the stills, then to remove Cannabinol as the acetate and the 
hydrocarbon by precipitation from a suitable solvent, and then to 
refractions, to the remaining material.
The work from that point, of course, all depend upon the results of the 
fractionations, and can not be very definitely foreseen, other than that 
those processes, to which I referred a moment ago, will be applied.
Now, it would have been possible to have attacked certain phases of 
the problem along a number of other lines, a few of which I will suggest in 
conclusion. The first would be a characterization of those volatile oils, 
which have been referred to, and which would be of interest from a purely 
chemical point of view.
They are separated with relative ease, by steam distillation, for 
example. No one, of course, has been very much interested in them, and that 
line of attack has not been followed.
Again, someone might become interested in the substance which 
responds to the acid Beam test. It can be removed from a solution in 
petroleum either by means of alkali, and presumably would be isolated with 
relatively little difficulty, but experience shows that resins so prepared 
are not physiologically active, hence little in-


terest is attached to that substance.
A third possible line of attack would have been in connection with the 
Beam test itself. The development of the color is due to a product resulting 
from oxidation of some substance which is present In the resin. This 
substance is soluble in aqueous alkali, and is precipitated by acid. It can be 
readily extracted from acid solution. It, of course, is not actually the 
substance which responds to the alkaline Beam test, but it would be of 
great interest from the purely scientific point of view.

MR. WOLLNER: I would like to make a couple of announcements.
Those of you who are not particularly interested in the chemical 
attack here may find this part of the program a little arduous, and I want 
you to understand that you are at liberty to leave and interrupt if you want 
to, as I think this part of the program might be a little obtuse at certain 
Dr. Blatt has just indicated that there are some errors in the material 
which he distributed on the critical review.
Do you want to indicate those?

DR. BLATT: There is one error in the literature, for example on page 
469 in the middle of the page are three


formulas, just one the paragraph beginning in the middle of those formulas. 
There is a carbon atom, a "C", a single line to an oxygen "0", and that should 
be a double line to make it conform to the other two.
Then, on that flow sheet, on the left-hand half of the page, the second 
of those errors reads "dihydrogenation with sulphur," and that should be 
“dehydrogenation", and not "dihydrogenation".

MR. WOLLNER: As you gathered, Dr. Matchett's attack there is directed 
at the heart of the problem; that is to say, the isolation and 
characterization of the extreme number of active principles.
I indicated at the beginning that there is another phase of the 
problem, and that was identification. We at this time do not know whether 
the chemical attack is destined to determine the active principle in one 
year or sixty years.
The Treasury has issued a little manual of identification, consisting 
largely of photographs, and it is being distributed. In this country we are 
mostly dealing with the drug in its plant form, and in this manual they are 
showing the separate parts of plants, and so on, and it is helpful in that 
I am going to ask Mr. Levine to give us a picture


of the Beam test.


MR. LEVINE: The Beam test seems to be the most widely used chemical 
test for the identification of Marihuana, and was first introduced by Dr. W. 
Beam, of the Wellcome Tropical Research Laboratory, of Khartoum.
The alkaline test in 1911 and the acid Beam test in 1915 have come 
to be accepted as specific for Marihuana, although a lot of samples have 
failed to respond.
Workers in Europe and north Africa have used it and tried it on a large 
number of plant materials.
In general it is agreed that no other material responds 
characteristically to the test.
It has been attacked by some chemists, notably Trolle and Rende, who 
said they obtained the Beam test on a mixture of drugs consisting of ginger, 
coriander, licorice, nutmeg, and several other things.
Other workers, notably Fahamy and Keiy in Egypt, and Papavassiliou 
and Liberato, in Greece, applied the test to these materials, both 
individually and in the mixture, and failed to get a positive response to any 
of them.
As I stated before, a large number of authentic samples of Marihuana 
failed to respond to the Beam test, or


gave a very slightly dirty purple color, which might be mistaken for just a 
dirty color. So a number of modifications of the Beam test have been 
introduced to try to improve the results obtained in the test.
One of the steps taken to improve the test was the use of adsorbent 
charcoal to remove chlorophyll from the solution of the resin.
This was reported independently by Fahamy and Keiy, Bouquet, and by 
the Bureau of Narcotics Laboratory.
One of the tests developed in the Bureau of Narcotics Laboratory is 
the ethyl acetate test. Ethyl acetate is used as a solvent, because it is a 
good solvent for the resin, it has a low boiling point, hence is easily 
evaporated and it can be treated with activated charcoal, which removes 
most of the chlorophyll, and other substances, which would interfere with 
color development, but takes out very little of the material responsible for 
the Beam test.
In carrying out the test, a sample of Marihuana is extracted with a 
portion of ethyl acetate. The solvent is treated for a few seconds with 
darco or norite and filtered.
The filtrate is divided between two porcelain dishes and evaporated 
on a steam bath before a fan. To one of


the dishes is added several drops of the alkaline Beam reagent, and to the 
other, several drops of the acid Beam reagent.
In a large number of tests, no samples which were negative to this 
modification were found to be positive by the original Beam test, or any of 
a number of other modifications.
It seems, therefore, that this is the most satisfactory modification 
of the Beam test.
Dr. Bouquet, in Tunis, has developed two amyl alcohol tests, one of 
which uses charcoal, and the other does not.
His test consists of grinding a sample of Marihuana with potassium 
Hydroxide, and then adding a portion of alcohol, mixing thoroughly, and 
filtering, whereupon a purple color appears in the filtrate.
Then, to a portion of this filtrate he adds about a ten-fold volume of 
water, and extracts with one cc. of amyl alcohol. The purple color is 
extracted into the amyl alcohol.
In his test involving the use of charcoal, he adds a small amount of 
animal charcoal to the mixture of the alcohol, KOH, and Marihuana, 
presumably to remove chlorophyll, and then lets it stand for two hours 
before filtering.


The resultant filtrate is free of chlorophyll, and the tests obtained 
are better.
We have found that his test, involving the use of charcoal, works 
better with activated charcoal, such as norit or Darco than with the animal 
charcoal prescribed.
Also, we find that we get results by filtering immediately after the 
addition of charcoal, instead of letting the mixture stand for two hours. We 
have not found any case of failure to respond upon immediate filtration, 
which would respond after standing.
Another modification which we have developed in our laboratory, and 
which may be considered a modification of the Bouquet test, is probably 
most convenient of the modifications to run, because it involves the least 
manipulation. It consists merely of shaking for a few seconds the sample of 
Marihuana with a two percent alcoholic solution of potassium hydroxide. 
Add to this is an amount of activated charcoal equal in weight to the 
Marihuana. The mixture is shaken for a few seconds, and filtered 
immediately. The filtrate is purple and on dilution with water, the purple 
colored substance may be extracted by amyl alcohol.
Other modifications of the technique have been proposed by Dr. 
Myttanaere, Viehoever, Placencias and others.


As I said before, a large number of plants fail to respond to any of 
these modifications of the Beam tests. We have followed the appearance of 
the Beam test in plants with regard to age, parts of plant, and variety.
In regard to age, some plants three inches tall have been found to 
respond to the Beam test. Some plants, at all states of growth, up to their 
decadence, respond.
Many male plants, which are all withered, and consist of nothing but a 
skeleton with a few dried flowers sticking to the top still respond to the 
alkaline Beam test.
As far as an individual plant goes, the order of response is best in the 
top, both with the male and female plants, followed by the upper leaves, 
lower leaves, upper twigs, upper stalk, lower twigs, and lower stalk. In 
other words, as you go up towards the top of the plant you get the best 
Where the top responds very strongly, you generally get a weak 
response in the skin of the lower stalk. If the tops respond very weakly, the 
upper leaves will probably be negative, or just give a trace of response. We 
have never been able to get any response at all from the pith or roots of the 


This last summer we tested six varieties of hemp, as Dr. Robinson 
indicated this morning. Three of them were Roumanian varieties; one of 
them was Italian, one, Manchurian; and one of Chinese origin.
Of the three Roumanian varieties, about a percent could be positively 
identified by the alkaline Beam test, as Dr. Natchett pointed out this 
The other three gave a trace of response to the test.
The Italian variety was very close to this, having about 98 percent 
attainable by the Beam test.
Of the Manchurian and Chinese, only about 20 to 50 percent could be 
positively identified, and of these, practically none of the tests were as 
strong as the tests obtained from the Roumanian and Italian varieties. The 
largest number of the plants were absolutely negative, or showed merely 
faint trances of response, which we would not consider to be suitable for 
identification if the plants were unknown.
We studied the effect of heating the plants towards response to the 
alkaline Beam test. We found that heating parts of the plant at 100 degrees 
with air blowing over them for up to five hours did not have any harmful 
effects on the material response for the alkaline Beam test.
In fact, some of the plants showed better response


after heating than before. Although some workers in Europe say in no case 
should the extract be heated. over 50 degrees Centigrade.
However, heating the plant at 150 degrees under the same conditions 
did prove to have a deleterious effect.
Another treatment we tried was permitting the plant to mold. We 
subjected the tops of some of the plants, both negative and positive, to 
molding, in a very moist atmosphere, for a period of about five weeks. After 
this period, the whole plant was covered with slimy mold. Response to the 
alkaline Beam test was as good as it was originally.
Some negative plants which were molded remained negative after the 
molding period.
Oxidization is an essential part of the Beam test. Beam, in his 
original article, pointed out that if the tests be applied in the absence of 
air, a dirty brown color will result instead of the purple color. We have 
taken up some of the resin in alcohol, and added an equal volume of 2 per 
cent alcoholic KOH solution. The resultant solution was colorless, but on 
passing oxygen through it, the characteristic purple color developed.
Shaking the solution with charcoal had the same effect. Presumably 
this is because oxidization is effected


by the oxygen adsorbed on the charcoal.
Oxidation must be done in alkaline solution. Charcoal plays a dual role 
in the test. In the case of the ethyl acetate test the effect is merely to 
remove extraneous matter, since no oxidation is effected in this solution.
In certain solvents, such as petroleum ether, the activated charcoal 
will entirely remove from solution the material responsible for the Beam 
test, while animal charcoal does this to a much smaller extent. In fact, 
animal charcoal may be used in petroleum ether, although its effect as a 
cleaning agent is not very large.
The second role of charcoal is that of an oxidizing agent.
The oxygen adsorbed on activated charcoal is effective in producing 
the necessary oxidation of the material responsible for the alkaline Beam 
test. Animal charcoal is effective to a very much smaller extent, and is 
therefore unsatisfactory for use in this process.

MR. WOLLNER: I think we will have a recess now for about five 
minutes before we resume.

(A short recess was taken, after which the proceedings were 
resumed as follows:)

MR. WOLLNER: Now, after that rather exhaustive


treatise on the Beam test, I would like to have Mr. Benjamin tell us 
something about this so-called Duquenois test.
The reason time is being given on these tests is this: Every so often a 
new test is obtained, and this is the experience in every phase of chemical 
activity, and until several months or years have been put in on it, everyone 
gets highly enthusiastic about it.
Efforts are made to introduce it as witness material in court, and the 
first thing you know you run into a situation where you are yourself out on 
a peninsula and you can not possibly get back.
We have asked the Treasury Department not to employ any tests 
unless they are absolutely tests on a theory of so-called triangulation, so 
that when our men go to court to testify on a seizure that their evidence is 

Mr. Benjamin, will you tell us briefly about the Duquenois test and 
what our experience has been with that.

MR. BENJAMIN: I think this was proposed in the early part of 1938. 
Reagent number 1 is an alcoholic solution with vanillin and acetaldehyde.
The second reagent is concentrated hydrochloric acid;


The technique consists of extracting hemp with petroleum ether and 
driving off the solvent by heat.
One then takes one cc. of the alcoholic reagent, adds it to the residue, 
and into the solution thus prepared, puts two c.c.’s of concentrated 
hydrochloric acid.
There is a change in color from green to slate blue to violet blue.
Now, since we have had this, we have tested approximately 165 
substances, including some of the alkaloids, the essential oils, C. D.  
alcohols, everything I could get my hands on that might show up with this 
So far, not one sample of hemp has failed to respond to this test. 
When I say "hemp" I am referring to solid extracts, fluid extracts, and ether 
available preparations. They all show positive.
Certain essential oils when treated by the test procedure ran through 
the same changes as the hemp, namely, oil of bay, geranyl acetate, rhodinyl 
acetate, and one or two others.
There was also a compound known as Denol, that gave practically the 
same reaction as hemp. That is used in C. D. alcohols. I do not know exactly 
what it is composed of, but I think a mixture of higher alcohols and ketones.


MR. SCHICKTANZ: Yes, higher alcohols.

MR. BENJAMIN: I must emphasize the fact that not one sample of 
Cannabis or fluid extract of Cannabis or solid extract has failed so far.

MR. WOLLNER: Would you recommend the test as an eliminative test 
for hemp; that is to say, hemp would have to give a positive test of the 
Duquenois agent in order to be considered hemp, and then proceed?


MR. WOLLNER: To apply another test to see whether it is another 

MR. BENJAMIN: I think the fact that ia the Duquenois test for Cannabis 
fails to respond, then one should hesitate to call the sample Cannabis.

MR. WOLLNER: That is predicated---

MR. BENJAMIN: (Interposing) On the 165. 

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Munch, you have had some experience with some 
other tests, which we do not think very much of.

DR. MUNCH: That is fine. 

MR. WOLLNER: What is your experience with that test?

DR. MUNCH: I started about three or four years ago with the method 
developed by an official in the British pharmacopoeia for ergot, using 
paradimethyl amino benzal-


The results I obtained I then dropped, because I got busy on something 
else, but I have had occasion this last spring to review and finish up that 
work, which was reported at Madison and the American Pharmaceutical 
Association. The manuscript is in the hands of the editor of the American 
Pharmaceutical Association, and ought to be out next month.
In it I tried various modifications and found the 2-1/2 per cent 
solution of paradimethyl amino benzaldehyde in 65 per cent sulphuric acid, 
or in 65 per cent phosphoric acid, which is my principal reagent.
The material to be tested is shaken with 10 parts, or approximately 
10 parts, of low boiling petroleum ether, (below 40 degrees Centigrade) 
which has been redistilled and a half part of Merck’s activated charcoal or 
norit, or any other U. S. P., activated carbon for five or ten minutes, then 
filtered. The filtrate is evaporated, and the reagent applied to the residue. 
The direct application of the reagent causes charring, or does not cause 
anything, according to how much material has been removed.
But on the addition of a drop of water there is an immediate 
development of a blue color, shifting toward the violet end of the spectrum, 
and disappearing within


two seconds or two hours, depending on how much material is present.
Ergot gives a blue color similar to that of Cannabis, but the color 
shift is toward the red. The red is much slower than with that of Cannabis, 
and it persists for several days.
I went to two neighborhood drug stores, and got ten or eleven 
materials out of their prescription department, and sent them through the 
same tests. Many of them gave no color. Others gave colors of some sort.
But, to make a long story short, none of them gave the same type of 
color as the blue shift that I obtained with Cannabis. 
I have tried about 50 samples of Cannabis, so far, and every one of 
those gave the same reaction. 
While my eye is not too good, still there is a symmetric trend 
between the potency on dogs and the degree of color developed here. By 
degree I mean intensity and duration, considering them together. But a 
product stronger on the dog has given me a stronger color. 

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Matchett, what is your experience with that 
Ghamrawy test? 

DR. MATCHETT: We found too many other substances, which we regard 
as giving colors too similar to that


given to Cannabis, to have any value in the hands [of] anyone not very 
definitely expert in the use of it. Even in such hands it is our judgment that 
colors given tobacco and certain other substances were still too near the 
color given by Cannabis for use in the case of extracts.
Of course, where we have a plant to look at, we realize a different 
situation exists.

DR. MUNCH: Even with tobacco? 

DR. MATCHETT: Tobacco was very close. 

DR. MUNCH: Is that right? 

DR. MATCHETT: This was not used with charcoal. 

DR. MUNCH: If I do not use charcoal, I get inconclusive results along 
that line. 

DR. MATCHETT: I am coming 'to that. 
It was our experience that the U.S.P. activated charcoal would remove 
either the hemp or tobacco test substance from petroleum ether. The result 
being that the test in hemp was about the same as it was in tobacco. 
I will ask Mr. Benjamin if that is a correct statement.

MR. BENJAMIN: That is correct. 

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Lancaster, have you had any experience with these 
tests in Canada?

MR. LANCASTER: Yes, Dr. [sic] Wollner.


Some years ago our interest was aroused as to whether or not 
Canadian Cannabis would be at all active. As some of you know, the plant 
thrives in all climates. We have it in all altitudes. There are no cultivated 
But some years ago we wanted to satisfy ourselves about the activity 
of the Canadian produced Cannabis. Some was grown in western Canada for 
windbreak purposes, that is the only economic function it had with us. 
	After applying the alkaline Beam test, as put out from Geneva we 
obtained positive reactions, and the pharmacologists tried it on dogs and 
we found it responded, so we concluded that some of the Canadian Cannabis 
was active.
From the standpoint of the administration of the Narcotic Act, our 
interest is entirely limited to the illicit traffic, and it is confined to the 
reefer or cigarette, where we have the advantage of a physical. diagnosis, 
rather than chemical.
The chemical work on this we intend to follow up as of extreme 
importance, because it is difficult to predict to what extent the extracts 
may come into use.
There is a possibility of developing a non-reactive type of plant, but 
it is not of an immediate concern, although there again conditions of world 
trade and combined


complications might become such that Canada might be asked to take up 
that problem again. Who knows?
So we can not afford to lose interest in these chemical phases of the 

Our experience with the Beam test has been that it is somewhat 
erratic, and does not always give the equivalent results in the hands of 
different operators, for some reason.
Of course, there again, we have run some of our tests on plants where 
we know we have had them in storage for some years.
It is rather puzzling there is no reaction there.

MR. WOLLNER: No reaction? 

MR. LANCASTER: On prolonged storage. 

MR. WOLLNER: Under what conditions was that hemp stored? 

MR. LANCASTER: In a large glass stopped bottle. However, we have to 
check that again, because of the results of this vegetation which remained 
an open field, which is another puzzle.

MR. WOLLNER: That is where we all find ourselves at the moment.
What I would like to hear from the group is something in the way of 
suggestions as to how this problem can be


most competently attacked. What is to be done? The problem is not a 
simple one, although there is no indication as to its complexity. I say it is 
not a simple problem, because if material has not been advanced after 
several thousand years of experience there must be some barrier there. 
Is there any technique which should be considered which has not been 
Dr. Hibben, have you any suggestions along this line?

DR. HIBBEN: That is rather a difficult question. I think we are 
proceeding correctly.
I think the first thing that has to be done is developing an adequate 
method for determining the content of the active principle, and until such a 
method is developed, there is not going to be very much room for 

MR. WOLLNER: The only difficulty has been that this problem has been 
very much the problem of peeling an onion--the more you peel, apparently 
the more peels you can take off, until you peel away the onion and then 
there is nothing left.

DR. HIBBEN: That is quite true. But I do not think there has been any 
comprehensive, systematic work done on the problem, by an adequate 
chemical staff, under ade-


quate direction.

MR. WOLLNER: The first thing seems to be to find the active principle. 
That is a different proposition.

DR. MUNCH: Has any work been done on the chlorophyl of the leaf?

DR. MATCHETT: All the work we know of is what you have done.

DR. MUNCH: The only thought I have is, if the chlorophyll of Marihuana 
happens to be different from all other chlorophylls in the universe, it can 
be identified microscopically.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Hibben, you have run some microscopic tests on 
Cannabis direct for the chlorophyll. 

DR. HIBBEN: I did not look for chlorophyll. I say that is very desirable, 
but I say they would be very doubtful on the chlorophyll alone.

DR. MATCHETT: Of course, there are some points about that. 

MR. VALAER: The chemistry of opium was very uncertain for a long, 
long time. We had a crude mass to work with, and gradually they pulled out 
one hundred pieces or more. I believe, after all, we have not been interested 
in this more than about two years. I believe the chemical crude resin 
Marihuana will work out in the same way. We have two stills upstairs. We 
have a good many people


working on it in extracts and various ways, even now in this brief time.

MR. WOLLNER: Dr. Couch, do you have anything to offer?

DR. COUCH: I would like to say that this problem is in no more 
desperate condition than a great many other problems in which a solution 
has not been reached. They all present this picture before the real work is 
done in solving it which makes it all seem extremely baffling.
It is very curious that by plugging along and keeping infernally at it, 
that one of these days the problem is solved almost before it is realized, 
and it seems to me that the lines that have been projected here and the 
lines that have been followed are exactly those that should be followed, and 
will, in the course of time, lead to the solution of the problem; I mean the 
information that you desire to have.
There is one thing that occurs to me that has not been mentioned, and 
that is if any work has been done upon the smoke from Marihuana, as the 
smoke is physiologically active.

It may be different from the resin taken by mouth or injected into the 
veins. That is another matter. But it seems to me that there is something 
there that might


be developed as a test for identity.

MR. SMITH: I think Dr. Hershfield did something on that chlorophyll 
work which he did two years ago.

DR. COUCH: Of course, along that line is also the possibility of 
reaction from the protein. It simply rests on the possibility and probability 
that that is, of course, the leafy tissue, and the extract probably would not 
The leafy portion would contain some propein. That with a water 
extract or salt extract of the plant itself, in a very short time would get 
positive results, one away or the other.
The difficulty there is there may be present some protein that is also 
present in another plant. That difficulty arises, but the precipitation 
reactions are amazingly specific and amazingly direct.
When one goes from one animal tissue to another he has to wash his 
hands extremely carefully as he changes over from one to another, so as not 
to spoil the test in the next tissue. There is that sort of delicacy.
I simply offer that as a test. I presume there has already been a lot of 
thought discounted on that subject.

MR. WOLLNER: I do not know of that test. Dr. Loewe? 

DR. LOEWE: If I may bring up the encroachment which


is in doubt, it has been known thousands and thousands of years that sex 
cells contain an active principle. However, it has taken up to this century to 
get hold of those active principles, and the reason was not the difficulty 
with respect to chemistry, but the difficulty was that there was no test 
for the active principle only as an active principle, and no chemical tests 
were given.
This is the same situation in Cannabis with one exception, and we 
know the physiological test for the active principle is given. It is much 
more easily accessible. This biological test is much more easily accessible, 
so there is a test, and the thing which has not yet been done, at least not 
yet systematically enough, is to dovetail the identification of the active 
principle by its active nature by a biological test.
I think this specific picture of the dovetail work gives immediately 
the solution, unless somebody is inclined to drop the whole thing.
But I again remember that same situation in the female hormone and 
the male hormone, which involves just this one property to give a beautiful 
color reaction. However, it did not take more than five years after finding 
the right test and using the right test in the right way from the first 
isolation of the principle. I think


this is the way prescribed.

MR. WOLLNER: Do you know of any experiments, Dr. Loewe, that have 
been performed on the smoke itself? 


DR. BLATT: I know of where they took the Marihuana smoke and passed 
it through solvents.

DR. LOEWE: Through chloroform? 

DR. BLATT: No, through water. 

DR. LOEWE Water, rather than chloroform?


COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: There is a great deal of work being done at 
the present time with respect to the use of opium smoke. A paper has just 
been prepared by someone in a laboratory in London, which has just been 
issued. Are you familiar with Dr. Nicholls?

MR. LANCASTER: Yes, Dr. Nicholls was mentioned in connection with 
the research today.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Is that the same Nicholls who is on the 
Opium Assay Committee?

DR. BLATT: I was going to say very much the same thing as Dr. Loewe 
said; that is, that I can not see any reason for being discouraged as far as 
chemistry is concerned.
Now, you have got a perfectly good point of attack.


The amazing thing about this whole problem is that nothing has been 
done with the exception of this one matter in 1932, when it was 
established that crude Cannabinol behaves like a pure substance, and the 
customary high vacuum distillation technique fails to separate it into its 
The work has been apparently dropped from that time on.
The surprising thing is that someone has not jumped into that.

MR. WOLLNER: Of course, there has been no commercial demand in that 
respect, .and that is one of the reasons for that.

DR. BLATT: It is difficult to get hold of the material. 

DR. HIBBEN: If you want to get something on spectroscopic methods, 
when these chemists leave the point where there are spectroscopic 
methods for determination and for determining the structure, they would 
aid greatly in facilitating this problem.

MR. WOLLNER: It would aid greatly.

DR. MATCHETT: We would like to ask Dr. Hlbben if there are not some 
such methods which may be correlated to the bioassay?


The essential or volatile oils come out of this material very readily. 
It can be narrowed down to relatively few compounds.
If we knew, separately, the spectra of these various materials, would 
it not help to follow the separations at that stage of operations?

DR. HIBBEN: Yes, I think it would. You can start in by that procedure on 

DR. MATCHETT: And I believe also carotenoids. 


DR. MATCHETT: As the fractionation goes further and further, the 
number of bioassays increases almost without limit, and that is one reason 
we were particularly interested in it.
Also, the quantitative phase has to be considered. 

DR. LOEWE: But, as an economic matter, and the rational method is to 
proceed in an economical way, which can be done by carefully choosing 
fractions to test.

DR. MATCHETT: I do not believe we could quarrel about that.

DR. MUNCH: Doctor, there is the other thought, and that is that we have 
not been picking on any of the prisoners lately.

COMMISSIONER ANSLINGER: Doctor, we are not dealing


with the same problem as opium, where we can take the addict to a hospital 
at Lexington and go through all of the experiments.
There is a little danger that this drug might affect a man 
permanently. He might do something which we may be sorry for later.
I think that must be given serious thought.

DR. WRIGHT: Dr. Wollner, I will not be very long now, but I just want 
to clarify a point, and it would seem from reports and other information 
that the tests are rather indicative of hemp rather than of the active prin-

I am saying that for this reason: We would like to be in a position to 
approach the development of strains that were free from the active 
Now, until we have a test it seems to be that we can not do anything.

MR. WOLLNER: Yes, and no.

DR. WRIGHT: I will say it is possible that one of these tests may be 
useful from a breeding standpoint, but it seems to me it is working entirely 
on a guess,
It would seem to me that any approach would be resolving the strains 
in pure breeding alone. In other words, approach the inbreeding situation in 
a hybrid manner;


that is the approach we want, but it would seem to me that all we could do 
at this state would be to develop those lines at random.

In other words, set up as many facilities as we could for pure 
breeding lines. Any individual plant that would be tested would be very 
indefinite as to what its progeny would be, and it would seem to me that 
that is more or less a blind approach; shall I say a lick in the dark; and we 
would have to develop as many as we could. We can do that, develop as many 
lines as possible, like in Prussic acid in Sudan grass.
My point is, and I am mentioning it to you chemists, that we can get 
nowhere without a test of consequence. We might be lucky. About ten 
thousand chances to one, we might be lucky until we have a test.

MR. WOLLNER: In the last analysis, you are unquestionably correct 
about that. Really, before significant progress can be made by the 
agricultural people, we will have to provide you with a formula.
Before we adjourn, I would like to invite any of the visiting friends 
present to come upstairs for a few minutes and see our laboratory set-up 
for tackling this job, the molecular stills, and extraction equipment, and I 
am quite sure you will enjoy it.


And I want to really express my appreciation and thanks for your kind 
cooperation in helping to clarify these issues.

(Whereupon, at 5:10 o'clock p.m., the Conference was adjourned sine 

1Wollner’s book???